#1—What makes a Conservative. What are the top 6 beliefs/ideas that define the conservative movement in America for you?
Are you asking in a political or mindset, sense? Because I'm a conservative, but so is Liam. Even if we do sit on opposite sides of the political table. Paul and Shields are both liberals, even though they sit on opposite sides of the political table.
Do you mind explaining that?
A conservative mindset responds to rational thought processes. We do not change, for change's sake, but rather analyze situations and see if change is warranted, and if it is, what course is to be taken. Liberals respond with emotionalism and demand something, anything be done. One can be conservative without being orthodox, progressive without being radical.
Think of it like ketchup. If you liberally apply ketchup to your fries, you f uck them all up. But, if you're conservative in your application of ketchup to said fries, it is deliciousness. And if you notice what the heathens in Holland do to their fries, a conservative might make a test sample, while a liberal would sally forth with wild abandon and disregard for propriety and civility, and make a disgusting mess of everything.
You're equating reasoning with conservatism. How many people are reasonable? But if you want to equate the two, start with the great Lady Thatcher's saying that the facts of life are basically conservative.--That's very close to saying that man is fated & I don't think that's your game. In your game, few conservative thinkers would be called that. Buckley wouldn't make the cut. Much less would Burke. To judge by people like them, conservatives believe men today are at least as pathetic as ever they were... Conservatives look at what passes for love of beauty in America & come close to tears...
I'm laying out baselines here. Classical liberals are what you're pointing towards I think.
Classical liberals today are the heroes of conservatives today. The American Founders were by & large classical liberals.
I mean to point out is that the noble is a fundamental concern for conservatives, not merely the good or the just.
Agreed. I was attempting to avoid mixing terminology. It gets confusing when Jefferson is both a liberal and a conservative.
But, even those great men, were properly grounded first. Before they set out on their noble experiment.
I agree with you on the need for a reasonable ground, but I think this confusion is inevitable. First, because the Founders were revolutionaries, startlingly rationalistic, & unashamed liberals. Try & explain warlike liberalism to liberals nowadays! Secondly, America was founded without recourse to ancient heritage. American conservatism does not go back to time immemorial--though liberal education might manage to fix that!--& it is therefore not quite venerable. Nobody tried to make America venerable as much as Lincoln did; his political project was not an unmitigated success... Americans look to the future, not the past. They're not fundamentally conservative. They're restless--if your prefer, greedy, acquisitive; more used to anger than fear.
Maybe I can say this more briefly. One day Jefferson says to Madison: Why don't we remake laws & the constitution constantly, so that every generation decides for itself, so that consent of the governed will be all that... Madison answers: I see your point about actually consenting to the laws, but if you keep changing the laws, the confusion would cause insanity!
Thanks for the history lesson Titus, but what I asked for was your opinion. Not what the Founding Fathers thought. What is your definition of a Conservative, right now, in America.
I gave you my opinion below, in about a dozen words. Now, this other thing we're talking about, if it's not your game, just leave us be-
Despite what the Italians and Dutch believe, we actually come from the explorer class. ADD and looking ahead and forward is in our blood. And we're back to the frontier spirit which you think little of. Those pioneers may have had only two books in their wagons, but they were damn good books.
If there is nothing new under the sun. And, there are no new thoughts to think. Then we do look to the past. We must look to the past. It will save us a lot of time getting to where we're going.
A liberal education is rooted in grammar. Understanding the basic forms of topics. The art and architecture and beauty the founders enjoyed, relied on the knowledge and foundation of known facts. Without that solidity, that baseline, one does not expand, one merely flounders about like a child at a buffet, sampling endlessly and never settling on a proper course.
Without a knowledge of Aristotle, are we to understand Locke, who Jefferson most assuredly read and quoted in the Declaration?
Yes, we move forward. Yes, we look back. The conservatives do anyway. Liberals believe history begins today.