Since it seems like somebody's Russian-equipped proxy has either upped the ante big time or committed the biggest aircraft identification blunders since the USS Vincennes "incident in 1988, does anyone want to weigh in on the festering mess? I've seen contradictory reporting, allegations of foul-ups by the Malaysian government, allegations of concealment from the Ukrainians, the Russians, the "separatists", and the US government, a bit of lion roaring from the Brits, and silence from the Malaysians.

And on this site, the crickets are deafening.

Anybody care to weigh in?

Tags: MH17

Views: 559

Replies to This Discussion

I would like to add on the situation that the United States has been involved in similar acts and have made actions similar(not the same, would like to avoid misinterpretation) to the Russia/Crimea one and because it is in the name of "democracy" no one bats an eye and clearly the USA is doing it for the good of us all but when Russia justifiably commits similar actions(their help was requested by the rebels) and no proof exists of actual Russian involvement suddenly Russia is the root of all evil and they are one step away from attacking Europe and committing such acts breaks international law.(I am not saying Russia is the good guy but in this situation they are the lesser of two evils, however I think any outcome that helps the people without loss of life should be a priority).

In relation to the plane who knows, the only evidence that it was separatists comes from Ukrainian intelligence so it very easily could be a set up to give justification to an attack, similar to that whole WMD's in Iraq situation.

I don't think it's quite as grand and existentialist as you make it out to be. Nobody wants to instigate a fight with Russia unless they absolutely have to because they are aware of all the potential consequences; consequences that did not apply in quick and dirty situations like Libya or Somalia, etc.

Mr. Techera,

Although a follower of Poli-Sci I don't think you really understand the situation either politically or in reality.  I'm going to bring up something that has been brought up before for much, much smaller and much much less powerful countries.  WMD and if you don't think that Russia has such items then you're not as savy as you seem to think.  Now, knowing about WMDs even the lower level WMDs such as biological do you think anyone wants to open that particular bottled beast?  Do you not think that Russia would simply refuse to use a weapon in its arsenal should it be attacked?

On the lighter side of the world situation it is not as bad as some make it out to be, we are no more in the 'dark ages of war' than we have  been at other times in our history.  There have always been wars, there have always been countries invading or taking over other countries, internal strifes, etc. and now is no different than then except for the fact we have news agencies and televisions and Internet sites to bring it to our attention.

"why risk fighting him?"

Small country, quick attack to get him to run and hide.  I don't think the Russians would respond quite the same way as Hussein and his 'army' did.  They're a bit more trained, advanced training on weapons systems and tactics/strategy, totally different mindset, educated populace, and well-oiled manufacturing system capable of introducing new and improved weapons systems.  So the corrallary between the two countries is not there.  Oh, and the Russian weapons industry (WMD wise) makes Iraq look like a kid with a chemistry set who has a cold.

Titus,

The cold War was "fought" by by diplomats and warriors who had actually been exposed to the horrors of chemical and nuclear warfare.  Those fellows also were around in the pre-antibiotic era when anthrax and cholera were scourges that depopulated areas with ruthless efficiency.

The danger we now face in any sort of cold-war stand off is not only do some exceedingly nasty folks have at least the biological and chemical stuff, but they don't think beyond deploying them against thiei particular brand of infidels.

So you want war with Putin(Russia)?  Did you not learn anything from the last two Great Wars?

"There is no reason to believe Putin is some crazy guy..."

Show me proof that he is not some nut-job wanting to build his own empire.  Proof enough exists to prove the opposite.

Not thinking that sophisticated analysis is the answer, it never really is but we, the US that is, are hesitant to enter into yet another conflict where we have to drum up support from supposed allies.  It's not on our door step and if the owners of the house can't or don't want to see the problem then why should we bother?

We had two world wars on our soil, that were so bloody and cruel that even the third generation after the war is sick of it. Just the suggestion that we should go to war to "grow a backbone" is outrageous. You have the same foolish attidude, that enabled two world wars in the first place. 

Not to mention that its obvious that you dont even know a bit about the current situation. Against whome should we go to war? Against the separatists? They ukrainian military is already fighting them. Should we violate their borders and do what?

Or should we start a war with russia, for what? Because they support rebells with weapons? Not to mention that there is no stategic or geopolitical reason to do it. Get your head out of your ass and realize that the world has changed since the cold war.

Hurt national bride had a lot to do with both wars and Hitler wouldnt have been able to do it without having millions behind his back supporting it.

You want to start a war for the reason that? Explain it? That Putin is a barking dog? You are still caged in cold war thinking. Putin is a prime douche but he isnt the "evil" he is a opportunist. Dont get me wrong we should show him his limitations by taking a tougher stance but there is no point in going to war.

Answer my question, why do you want to go to war with russia? What did Putin do that is so evil? He did a anect a small ukrainian part which was russias a few decades back and supoorts rebells with weapons.

Western countrys give weapons to rebells all the time.

So you want Europe to start a war against Russia because of that and destabilize the whole of Eurasia? How is that not foolish?

Then tell me why a war with Russia is inevitable. Until the current conflict european - russian relations were quite good since russia is a trade partner. Especially Germany had a good relation with Russia due to Schröder and Merkel. And the most likely case is that it will go back to this after this conflict is forgotten.

Sure Russia violates human rights, but so does the USA . Neither Russia nor Putin are a enemy of Europe.

And reason why Putin is not evil? You should stop to see things in black and white. Most of them are grey.

We had two world wars on our soil,

"Mercy, for we are orphans!" cried the Mendendez brothers.

No clue what you are talking about.

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