(First of all, I decided to post this here rather than in the Men Supporting Men group -- where insults and bullying are not allowed -- because I thought there would be more participation here.)

(Secondly, I have many LGBTQ friends, whom I support in any way that I can.  Some are single, some are committed, some are married.  None of them are the attention-grabbing persons we see on TV at festivals and parades.  They are just ordinary persons who have a sexual attraction that is not heterosexual.)

The whole question of transgender persons in the military is being discussed a lot these days, after the President changed their being welcome in the military.  At first glance, this can seem like a great injustice is being done to persons who have done nothing illegal.

But I also read recently about specifics relating to the military, and relating to persons who are transitioning.  There is very little privacy usually in the military, with gang showers, etc. being very common.

A female military person was quoted recently about how uncomfortable she would be if a person who is transitioning were showering at the same time she was.  This person (for example) may have begun hormone therapy and therefore have female breasts.  But s/he had not had the sexual reassignment surgery, so s/he still has male genitalia (in addition to the female breasts).

I know that I would personally feel a little uncomfortable in a gang shower with a person who had a masculine chest and/or or facial/body hair but who also had a vagina rather than a dick and balls.  (I would also feel uncomfortable having a person next to me at urinals who looked and acted like a woman just because she was born a male and that's what the rules say the person must do as far as restrooms are concerned.  And besides, who is going to check persons' birth certificates at the door to ascertain that they are entering the "correct" restroom?)

What do you guys think?  Remember: No insults or bullying.  Just a mature discussion, please.  Thank you, brothers.

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Replies to This Discussion

This. 1000 times this.

DSM-5: "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder."

A non-disorder that kills.

But, yes, not always.  Usually those that express transgender feelings have those feelings spontaneously subside before they lead to self-harm, surgical or otherwise.

It's not a disorder, and it doesn't kill. Surgery isn't self-harm, and that psychiatrist is a professional outlier who is not in keeping with the latest and greatest in his profession. 

Conditions that lead people to commit suicide don't kill and aren't disorders.  Cutting off healthy organs isn't self-harm.  

Sounds like a dead end.

Don't blame the victim. The trauma of rejection and discrimination causes problems for many trans individuals. Not being trans itself.

One point I've seen raised a couple of places is the need for ongoing drugs and/or hormones.  Given the austere nature of the battle field that is a concern - just as it is for other conditions that require ongoing medical attention.

On that note, asking from complete ignorance and curiosity, are diabetics that require insulin barred from the military?  From combat positions or deploying?

The last I knew, diabetes was cause for separation from the military.
I know a Navy chaplain who was unable to deploy in GWOT because he has diabetes, but he still served. The problem was how far he would be from emergency care if needed.

Just how many transgender people are there a) in the world and b) that want to serve in the military? Anybody have a decent count or estimate there? Maybe it's me, but it seems like we (royal, world, "we") are spending an inordinate amount of time discussing the perceived needs of a relatively small demographic.

There must be a compelling need -- not among those with transgender issues, but those that don't but are driven to change how others go to the bathroom, etc.  (I don't mean the Obama admin; if you have all that power, why not use it?)  Why have compassion on the man who wants to go to the ladies', but not the girl who's afraid of men in the ladies' when she's got her pants around her ankles?

I've seen this another direction.  When there was a move to change the GA state flag to remove the Stars and Bars which was added in the 50's, one acquaintance opposed it on the grounds that it was history and he saw no reason to change.  That is, people disliking it and being upset by it couldn't register with him.  Selective compassion.


"It was estimated that in 2014 that there are approximately 15,500 transgender individuals either serving on active duty or in the National Guard or Army Reserve forces within the U.S. Military."

I don't think that number has gone down - though estimates do vary. I don't think we can accurately estimate how many are in the world, or even the US, though I've seen numbers as high as 1% (which given the size of the US is a fairly large number) - as far as how many wish to serve? We are over 10K already serving... it's not like we're talking abstractly about three or four individuals. 

Does the size of a demographic, impact whether or not actions against them are right or wrong?


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