Lets have an honest thread on the topic of race. Just share honest thoughts. Don't overly censor yourself, but don't make a joke of this either. I want us to have a serious and honest conversation on the subject.

I do accept that race is a biological reality, not just a cultural construct. I do not posit the idea of one master race, as there have been worthy societies produced by multiple races, such as the civilizations of Europe and of Asia, when considered together. I however, view with immense doubt and skepticism the claim that all races, on average, have the same level of intellect. But, I don't support any nature of social system based on de jure racial stratification, because there are always outliers in any population, and its hard to measure these things in a manner that would enable simple categorization. I'm not about sterilizing someone over an IQ test.

I want thoughts.

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"Interesting that labels change only when they carry a real or perceived emotional load. White people have been white people for hundreds of years."

They've also been called Europid, Caucasian, Hamitic, European-Americans / people of European Ancestry, gringos, mzungus, etc.

Not in any common usage.

Where you're from, maybe.

In any event, we've had this conversation before. You're free to call people whatever you want. It's generally more pleasant all around when you refer to people as they wish to be referred. Whether you do or don't is up to you and what happens as a result is on you.

Anecdotally: I didn't really give a shit when people in Africa referred to me as mzungu but I certainly could tell when people were using it as a general descriptor and when they were using it disparagingly. Over time, had the latter happened more often than not, I could see myself resent it general use at all.

It's generally more pleasant all around when you refer to people as they wish to be referred. Whether you do or don't is up to you and what happens as a result is on you.

Of course I call people as they wish to be referred. This convo isn't about what we call people. BTW genius, I've lived, worked, and travelled abroad extensively and am married to a non-white with two mixed-race children

Not you specifically. You as in "one".

Sorry, man - mis-read your tone :)


Gweilo! Love that one! And Farang / Barang, too!

A semi-famous half-Asian, half-white chef in Canada decided to jokingly name his restaurant "Gwailo" and was then pressured by the public to change the name.

My thoughts exactly.

I'm ok with the cycle for handicaps, because handicaps are actually unpleasant, so every term for a handicap eventually sounds unpleasant.  But there's no way I'll condemn someone for being out of date on the latest terms.

One thing PC gave us that I think we can embrace is to emphasize the person rather than the quality.  Child with delays, not retard.  Mentally handicapped person, not (seriously, these used to be terms) idiot or moron.  Down syndrome adult, not Mongoloid.


And at one point - when I was in elementary school, even, "retarded" was the kind label.

Retarded used to refer to a timing issue. The timing of a watch could be retarded or advanced.

*edit* - oops, just read your thought and realized you said the same thing

Wow...this whole discussion so far seems to me to be somewhat esotaric.  My thoughts and feelings on the matter of race in the United States are much simpler than what may or may not lead to lower intelligence between races and/or how such things are defined and measured. 
First, there is a part of me that feels sorry for black people in this country.  They are being systematically victimized, but not by racist white people.  Rather, they are constantly being shouted at by race-bating black people, telling them that the white man is still opressing them and that the white man is responsable for their plite as a race and a culture.  This has been so successful that not only have most black people accepted it as fact, but some white people lothe their own whiteness and openly proclaim it to anyone who will listen.  They have been victimized by a wellfare system that pretends to be a safety net, but is actually a snare that removes any insentive to work, produce, or contribute anything positive to their society and economy.  And as has been mentioned, the thug culture has done nothing to lift these people to a higher economic status and discourages promiscuity, as well as  any insentive the black man has to marry and support and raise his offspring.  And let's not discount the effects of a poorly-run public education system loaded with unnecessary bureaucrats and where the available funds are poorly spent and unevenly distributed.  All this is, of course, compounded by the erosion of the traditional nuclear family across all races.  And corrupt politicians, who care only for power, money, and votes, are all too eager to exasorbate the problem by using all these things to create and reinforce a permanent underclass who will vote for them and continue the cycle indefinitely. 
The second issue I have with the whole affair is that I, as a white man, am highly-offended at the charge that I am somehow responsable for the state of the black culture as it is.  My ancestors didn't even get here until after the civil war had ended.  My late father bitterly-aposed the Jim Crow laws and opined as much in the college newspapers of his day, even though he never met a single black man until he was almost 20 years old.  I am tired of having the "racist" label thrown at me simply for supporting the political candidates that I do.  I am tired of a culture of white people who are intimidated by this reverse-racism movement, preventing them from identifying and correcting the problem without being ruined in every way imaginable if they dare stand up and be counted.  And I think it's a shame that these flames are still being fanned over 150 years after over 600,000 gave their lives in the civil war, and countless more suffered great injuries as a result of fighting in that war.  And even decades after the Jim Crow days ended, race is still the most devisive issue there is.  In short, the decay of the family, the welfare trap, opportunistic politicians, a terrible public education system,  the acceptance of the thug culture, and race-baters, I believe, are the primary reasons why we are where we are. 

JD, I think you need to listen to what people of color say about their experiences with race. Genuinely listen. Their experiences are not simply the result of race baiting.

If you're upset that you're called a racist because of your support for political candidates, quite frankly that sounds like it has more to do with your need not to be criticized than anything else. Accept it as true or justify why it's not true. But don't ask for your feelings to be spared. You choose who you support, and you can't escape responsibility for that.


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