Lets have an honest thread on the topic of race. Just share honest thoughts. Don't overly censor yourself, but don't make a joke of this either. I want us to have a serious and honest conversation on the subject.

I do accept that race is a biological reality, not just a cultural construct. I do not posit the idea of one master race, as there have been worthy societies produced by multiple races, such as the civilizations of Europe and of Asia, when considered together. I however, view with immense doubt and skepticism the claim that all races, on average, have the same level of intellect. But, I don't support any nature of social system based on de jure racial stratification, because there are always outliers in any population, and its hard to measure these things in a manner that would enable simple categorization. I'm not about sterilizing someone over an IQ test.

I want thoughts.

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Now you've done it.

What?

OK, a serious answer.  Race is either cultural or genetic.  Genetic factors:  there seems to be very small variation between humans of one ethnicity and another as compared to, say, dogs, cows, deer, other world-spanning species.  Sometimes those differences matter, as with genetic diseases.

It also seems that most of the variety happens in Africa, that is, a Swede and a Korean are more similar than a Bantu and a Pygmy.  For that matter, Bantu are more like Swedes and Koreans than Pygmies and I forget whatever other small groups there are.

So we'll not easily find a biological basis for significant differences in behaviors.  

Culture, OTOH, obviously has tremendous impact on behavior.  For example, few of us here speak Vietnamese; that's a behavior.  Few Americans marry multiple wives at the same time, but they're way more likely to do so serially than, say, Indians.  We also see cultural differences in immigrants, which tend to fade in the next generation.

If you're looking for differences in IQ, the performance of inner-city kids who get into parochial schools or magnet schools is informative.

Thank you.

Read the book "The Bell Curve"

As far as intelligence goes, socio-economic status is the great equalizer. 

Also, some indigenous people in undeveloped countries have a higher average intelligence than in developed countries. They're just ignorant, not unintelligent. You can be an idiot and live a long life in the USA. An idiot in New Guinea will die

Thank you, I will look for the book.

Another good book to read is Guns, Germs, and Steel. It shows that, even if you do believe in race, it's actually geography rather than race or culture that is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) factor that determines to what degree a society has developed and modernized.

Thomas Sowell covers that in Wealth, Poverty, and Politics: An International Perspective. It's a good read.

I've read Guns Germs and Steel. I generally think its true.

I'll be fully candid, which will probably get me crucified.

I believe that of course genetics is what causes race, but culture can influence the genetics. I'll use black people as an example, since in America their plight the easiest to demonstrate.

There is some research that shows that blacks on average have lower intelligence. If this evidence is to be accepted, it has to be genetic. There's no other viable way. However, I believe this is caused by a thug culture that has stunted the intellectual growth of the black race.

Why has it stunted their intellectual growth? Because it A) primarily panders to the idiots among blacks and B) it encourages promiscuity, leading to both a higher birth rate and abortion rate. So what we have here is a culture that attracts idiots, mostly among blacks, then directly (in order to receive government handouts) and indirectly (through promiscuity) encourages them to reproduce. This causes an imbalance of less intelligent blacks.

Also, I think it's worthy to note that this same culture attracts many idiots among whites too. However, because it panders mostly to blacks, it mostly attracts the idiots among blacks.

"There is some research that shows that blacks on average have lower intelligence. If this evidence is to be accepted, it has to be genetic."

Why does it have to be genetic?

As mentioned above, it's generally accepted (via extensive research) that people in lower socio-economic groups, on average, less well in academic / intellectual circumstances than people in higher socio-economic groups.

If black people in the USA are over-represented in lower socio-economic groups and under-represented in higher socio-economic groups, that's certainly one explanation other than "genetics" that could explain why, in the USA, "blacks on average have lower intelligence".

As mentioned above, it's generally accepted (via extensive research) that people in lower socio-economic groups, on average, less well in academic / intellectual circumstances than people in higher socio-economic groups.

If someone is relatively unintelligent, doesn't it follow that they probably won't do as well as someone who is intelligent? I think you are mistaking the lower socioeconomic status as a cause for lower intelligence, when it's really the other way around.

Also, the lower socioeconomic status would probably cause the same phenomenon (though to a lesser degree) as the thug culture I mentioned because it also isolates.

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