Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Justin Cook on November 15, 2012 at 6:54pm

as i belive einstine said that every watch has a watch maker.

Permalink Reply by Liam S. on November 15, 2012 at 8:38pm

His quote is that he should have been a watchmaker (in response to his concerns over the use of atomic weapons/power) ...

The watchmaker thing isn't einstein's bag. That's the deists (and others).

Permalink Reply by StaggerLee on November 15, 2012 at 7:04pm

The two, evolution and the existence of God are not mutually exclusive.

Permalink Reply by Will Gentile on November 15, 2012 at 9:17pm

That much is true, because there is a certain evolution to the order of the "what and when" of God's creation and His creating.

Permalink Reply by Justin Cook on November 16, 2012 at 12:35am

as far as physics go's if the laws of physics hold true consisitantly and since the dawn of time existed are these laws not all powerful laws and since these laws hold are universe togther in a logical format that use humans are just now comprehending does that not at least hint to a god?

Permalink Reply by Liam S. on November 16, 2012 at 1:45am

Did you read my response on the previous page?

Certainly many people believe that the physical constants hint at god, but there are a large number of other, non-god things they can also hint at. They certainly do not show a god is necessary, or serve as proof of one.

are these laws not all powerful laws and since these laws hold are universe togther in a logical format

We do not know that they are all powerful - and there may be many instances where they break down dramatically. We should also be careful to not assume that the laws of physics hold/control the universe - all we know is that they describe the universe as we are able to observe it. A being that can perceive more than 3 or 4 dimensions at once, might find our understanding as laughable as a water strider's is to ours - a creature who only perceives the world in terms of forward, back, left and right - without knowing there is an up, or down.

Permalink Reply by Rick Shelton on November 20, 2012 at 10:36pm

Justin

There seems to be some evidence that the laws and constants have not held consistently over the lifetime of the universe.  There are also other theories such a M theory that provide a universe like ours without the need for a god or supreme being.  Even without using M theory and just using quantum theory what we see is just a potential outcome of the big bang, it is simply the most or one of the most likely outcomes.

Permalink Reply by Justin Cook on November 16, 2012 at 2:02am

i think this isnt a slove able debate that in my view god doesnt need to be physical god can be the very idea of logic its self im not saying it has to be my god thats a matter of faith i simply think theres evidence to defend a higer something in the universe.

Permalink Reply by Liam S. on November 16, 2012 at 2:09am

Our concepts of evidence, appear to be quite different standards. 

 

I agree, this is not something we will resolve here - I'm just presenting information and challenging that something you call a "hint" at a god, really counts as evidence for one. 

 

I'm not saying you cannot use these to bolster your faith and help provide rationale for you to believe - go for it. But recognize that they are not evidence, and are not compelling when approached logically, or provided as arguments for a deity. They are more akin to a "hey, wouldn't it be cool if..." statement - not an argument.

 

(side note - logic itself is not a god, nor does the existence of logic act as evidence of one)

Permalink Reply by Dan P. on November 16, 2012 at 2:21am

I agree with Liam. I would also like to state that your continued abuse of the English language deeply hurts me in ways personal, emotional, and ethical.

Permalink Reply by Nick H on November 16, 2012 at 3:11am

Justin, I know you have an honest medical concern that affects your ability to spell but is it possible to run your posts through a spell checker (maybe type them on word or something, and then cut & paste them into AOM) first. I often find it difficult to understand your posts due to the spelling errors.

Permalink Reply by Joseph Casson on November 16, 2012 at 11:40am

evolution is something we have evidence for, god on the other hand not so much. I personally find it irrelevant because regardless of which is the case (or if both are) nothing will change from that. We will all find out what happens too us at the end of our lives so there is no point worrying about it.

Also, morality did not come from God. Christianity is not the first religion, and a lot of it has things taken from other religions (I refer you to the story of Horus). Morality comes from rules humans come up with based on common ideas founded on feelings. We know what makes us and others feel happier, so we deem those morally right. Notice all the things we deem harmful to other people are deemed bad (assualt, murder, rape etc). We didnt need to wait for the Bible to be written to tell us they were bad, man decided that beforehand.

Possibly a nitpick but can you try to be clearer with your grammar and spelling? I had to re-read this multiple times to make sure I understood what you were asking.

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