"In this world, is the destiny of mankind controlled by some transcendental entity or law? Is it like the hand of God hovering above? At least it is true that man has no control; even over his own will." -Kentaro Miura 

Do you guys think humans have free will? 

I don't, and I think its an extremely irrational belief to think that we do, regardless of whether you take a religious or scientific perspective. 

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Seriously, I want to listen to understand here.  I don't see how this argument can fail to convince:

"You are arguing that we don't have free will, right?"



If it's any reason other than "Because I can't help it," haven't we just shown the answerer believes in free will himself -- rightly or wrongly?

If anyone doesn't find this compelling -- say why not.  I'm beginning to think we mean different things by "free will."  I mean "I can choose at least some of my actions."


A lack of free will wouldn't necessarily have to equate to mindless action. You could make a decision (deliberating pros and cons, etc.), which to you would seem yours - but which was inevitable, either a result of subconscious natural processes and internalized biases, or foreseen and guided without your knowledge.

An illusion of freedom, then.

Very disappointed nobody has posted this yet.

We just chose not to.

...Or did you?

Will free of what?

I tend toward compatibilism, but mainly because I've always thought the question itself lacks any substance or detail.

People tend to think that will is either free or not. I don't see it as one on/off switch, but rather as a panel of a thousand switches. The best we can do is list as many switch positions as we can.

E.g. it's better to ask if any particular choice is free of some particular thing.

I don't think people really do think at those extremes. If I trip, my fall was not my choice; if I have a hereditary disease, it's not my choice; if I'm delirious, it's not my choice. The question I hear isn't whether we're 100% free or 100% determined, but whether we're 100% determined or anything less.

Except here. Here, I seem to be hearing not "do I have freedom to make any choices at all" but "am I free of influences." Which surely it's obvious nobody is.

Actually I can't figure out what others are hearing in this discussion.

I'm going to go full on nerd for this one.

It depends entirely on your belief system.  Many experiments conducted in Quantum Physics suggest that choice creates reality and the math behind that, supports evidence that the future effects the past just as much as the past effects the future.  Its tough to wrap your head around but if you subscribe to the multi-verse then all possible outcomes are not only possible but "happen".  I'm not sure free will is possible as again everything "happens".  If you narrow down the question a bit to say "Is there such a thing as free will within this universe?"  Then I'd say yes. 

The ancient Norse called that Wyrd. Look it up, interesting read when you compare it to that.


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