Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Elliott Jason Ridgway on June 18, 2012 at 11:33am

I said tangible and quantifiable evidences... there are other types of evidence beyond that... so no contradiction there...

Permalink Reply by JonEdanger on June 18, 2012 at 12:22pm

The saddest part of that post is that I believe you truly believe there is no contradiction.

Permalink Reply by Rick Shelton on June 18, 2012 at 12:58pm

Yes, but Elliott you require those other religions to intellectuallize their belief systems but do not require it of yours.  As to other evidences beyond that, what would they be?  Even the "miracles" as provided by the various churches are subject to the requirement of evidences such that no plausible "natural" reason can provide an explanation for the end result.  In otherwords the miracle has to be proven to be the result of super-natural forces and not the result of natural or man-made phenomenon.  But maybe you don't believe in miracles.

 

You know, one of these days God is going to realize that he left an experiment running in the lab, go back and turn off the lights.

Permalink Reply by Elliott Jason Ridgway on June 18, 2012 at 2:02pm

You are contracting together two statements I made about two different topics, as an attempt to make it appear that I hold to a double-standard... you are chomping at the bit... Just hold your horses, and when I have time to, I will apply the same standards to Christianity as I do to other religions...

I don't require tangible and measurable proof of the existence of God, as God reveals Himself to humanity in many was that are not capable of being repeated in a controlled laboratory experiment... such as speaking in the minds of His disciples through the still, quiet voice... through one's own conscience to know the difference between right and wrong, and causing feelings of guilt or shame when one chooses to violate God's laws... appearing in personal visage to some believers... and miraculous cases of Divine Intervention that defy explanation...none of these manifestations are measurable or quantifiable; they are dismissed as anecdotal, yet they are cumulative evidences nonetheless... 

Most of all, by inspiring and preserving the Word of God through Scripture, through all eras and against all odds... Within the Bible itself, there are many factors that allude to or show literary evidence to the existence of God, and His incarnation as Jesus Christ... while the veracity of the Bible is often questioned or explained away, the Book itself does have a consistent thread of storyline and major themes, despite being written by 40 men over thousands of years in different civilizations, by kings and paupers...

While there are some who debate it, the Bible is historically accurate, verified by archeological discoveries and in the literature of other religious and political groups...

The Bible also has hundreds of prophecies foretelling the Advent of Christ, and giving specific details of His birth, life, death, and resurrection... statistically speaking, it approaches astronomical absurdity to try to claim that this was all a chance coincidence... it takes more faith in randomness to disbelieve in Bible prophecy, than to come to the reasonable conclusion that God inspired men to write the OT prophecies before He came as the Son of Man, as evidence pointing forward to His Ministry and "finished work on the Cross"... 

I do believe in miracles, as I have personally experienced some in my own lifetime... I don't hold much value in the "miracles" provided by the various churches, though... parading relics of body parts of dead saints to show the miracle that they haven't decomposed is disgusting and silly... weeping statues and paintings can be staged as some form of parlor trick, and they are a cash cow for exploiting the religiosity of tourists and those on devout pilgrimages... 

Visions of Guadalupe are a hallucination at best, and a demonic manifestation at worst... either way, it is a distraction from Jesus Christ as the sole mediator between man and the Father...

Permalink Reply by LShieldes on June 18, 2012 at 2:56pm

I thought Jesus was the Father? So you have to talk to one guy so that the same guy can understand you when he couldn't unless you talked with him through himself.
It gets tiring with all the contradictions that you have to rationalize away

 

Could it be possible that God spoke to others and said "Give it a rest on this book already", or does God only speak to people who will fulfill your rather narrow view of how he SHOULD be speaking, esp as you already need him to mediate between you and the other him

Permalink Reply by Elliott Jason Ridgway on June 18, 2012 at 3:15pm

Yes, man can only reach God the Father through God the Son, Jesus Christ, meaning that those who claim to have a relationship with God the Father through some other means, whether it be a prophet or an angel or even the mother of god, it is not of God, but of some demonic origin...

Sheildes...

I recommend reading the New Testament of Bible... that should clear up the most blatant misconceptions you have regarding who Jesus Christ is... as well as to further your understanding the different yet equal offices that the Father, Son, and holy Spirit have in relation to each other... the Three aspects of the Trinity are one and the same in essence, yet distinct in their function...

Jesus prayed to God the Father when he walked the Earth, and he was persecuted by saying He is the Son of God, not for saying He was God the Father... the Trinity is a complex mystery, even to lifelong christian scholars, but the fact of the matter is that Jehovah is the Father in Heaven that transcends time-space, Yeshua/Jesus is the Son who existed in Heaven before manifesting as a man on Earth, and the Holy Spirit is what indwells each and every believer simultaneously, as well as drawing non-believers into becoming followers of Christ... 

No, it isn't possible that new revelation was given to humanity since the last book of the Biblical cannon was given... In the book of Revelation, God declared that it was complete, and gave a warning against anyone changing the Word of God by adding to it or taking away from it, and prophesied that in the future, false prophets would arise with false gospels to lead men astray, which occurred with the gnostic texts as well as others...  

Permalink Reply by JonEdanger on June 18, 2012 at 3:18pm

No, it isn't possible that new revelation was given to humanity since the last book of the Biblical cannon was given... In the book of Revelation, God declared that it was complete, and gave a warning against anyone changing the Word of God by adding to it or taking away from it, and prophesied that in the future, false prophets would arise with false gospels to lead men astray, which occurred with the gnostic texts as well as others...

*snicker* 

Permalink Reply by Elliott Jason Ridgway on June 18, 2012 at 3:24pm

The Bible also predicted that scoffers would reject the Word of God in these last days, as they are among the one's being deceived...

Permalink Reply by JonEdanger on June 18, 2012 at 3:29pm

But of course.

Permalink Reply by Rick Shelton on June 21, 2012 at 10:00am

Sheilds,

I've always thought of the Trinity as being similar to a man.  He is a Father to his children, a husband to his wife, and a co-worker to his associates.  Each of these have certain responsibilities and even manners in which they behave but are the same person.

Elliot,

Why would you say that you believe in the soft voice of God in a person's ear but suggest that the Visions of Guadalupe are hallucinations?  Couldn't they be from the same entity?  As for miracles I believe that Divine Intervention is measurable, otherwise how would you know a miracle occurred, as there is a final result the proof of the miracle is that there is no natural explanation.

Permalink Reply by Elliott Jason Ridgway on June 21, 2012 at 11:16am

I say evidences that aren't measurable to refer to personal experiences with God, such as Him appearing to people in a dream or in a waking vision, which are dismissed as anecdotal by the materialists...

Miracles are often explained away by some preposterous natural phenomenon, or dismissed as being staged... since attempts to replicate the conditions for the miracle is often not repeatable, so it is discarded as an anomaly since it contradicts the known laws of physics...

I dismiss Visions of Guadalupe because the prophecies that were given to the young girls in Fatima, Portugal contradict the Bible, and goes against the character of Jesus as being the sole intermediary... whereas the Mary cult believe she is a co-redemtrix with Christ... that's blasphemy...

In the NT, Paul warns that if he himself or an Angel appeared to say anything that violates the Truth of the Gospel, to pay no attention, since it is of demonic origin...

Permalink Reply by Liam S. on June 21, 2012 at 11:34am

Got it. Messages from talking shrubbery is ok. Messages from talking visions of the mother of god, not ok. You do realize how arbitrary your criteria appear?

 

And I know if I were writing a book I didn't want questioned, I'd be sure to add in clauses specifying that anything that came after it was false. Especially if it might possibly challenge what I wrote. 

 

whereas the Mary cult believe she is a co-redemtrix with Christ.

 

Actually, I don't think that's actually what they believe.

 

 

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