With legalization of marijuana being a current trending topic as it's being legalized in Colorado, I got thinking about what would happen if all drugs were legalized (including hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine). Would it wipe out the crime associated with the drug trade and allow police time and in turn government spending to be spent elsewhere. Or would it go completely wrong and end up with a society [more] riddled with drugs and federal drug monopolies?

I was reading that in Portugal, in 2001, it became the first country to decriminalize the possession of all drugs for personal use. They also implemented state-funded drug therapy schemes to get users off drugs which after their introduction, more users were committing to drug therapy programs than before. Also rates of HIV infection and drug-related deaths have almost halved since the legislation. They have, as of 2011, a drug-death rate of 1.3 (per 100,000 people), ranking well below both the US and UK. 

On the other hand though, Thailand, has the 5th lowest drug-related death rate in the world, they have extreme sanctions of drug dealing and drug-use (death penalties) etc. Although I can't see this happening in developed Western societies and also I question the thoroughness of the statistics found in Thailand, (I can imagine a lot of deaths go unreported). 

I'm not saying by any means that this would work in other countries, they probably didn't have a huge drug problem to begin with, but could this potentially work elsewhere and help lower drug-related deaths + the monopolies of illegal cartels?

I'm not sure about how the economics of the drug trade would work after it would be legalized, would illegal organizations be replaced by legal monopolies such as tobacco companies?

It's clearly not a straight-forward discussion but I just wanted to add a bit of food for thought in the current debate that seems to be happening over drug use. Personally, I find it difficult to side on which side of the debate. I can accept that strictly penalizing drugs is the Western world hasn't really solved anything, but would following the suit of Portugal work? I tend to take quite a libertarian view on issues but I'm undecided here...

Thoughts gentlemen?

Views: 1534

Replies to This Discussion

I believe any adult should have the right to do whatever drugs he wants.

Well, I am definitely against drugs morally, but politically I'm all for more freedom. At the very least I would say it should be left for each state to decide. Certainly not something within the federal government's realm of responsibility.

Agreed, but the "harder" the drug is the worse it is. I can't see every drug legalised, unless there is a fast acting, video-game esque cleaning agent, and even then the growers and suppliers will still be around to linger. At best they'll move on to something else, at worse they'll just become the official suppliers.

And a grown human being should have the right to kill their brain cells and become a vegetable if they so choose. I just don't see why this is a government responsibility. Its neither an act of aggression or property rights issue, therefore not the government's responsibility. No matter how hard the drug...

You know, Steve, I agree with you-people should have the right to kill those brain cells.  And the way they handle it in certain "socialist" Western European societies is to give the users their own physical "zone" patrolled by police so they can destroy themselves away from others so they can't harm anyone but themselves.

Does the Libertarian Party have a stance on that?  After all, people can be a danger to others while they're doing stuff like that.  Would you advocate that the state pay for the forced residency of people who are killing themselves with drugs?

that again would be violation of freedom. You should be able to do what you want on your own private property. If you commit an act of aggression, or violate someone's property rights under the influence, that's one of the few occasions when the government steps in and throws the book at you. But it is never the right answer to police "possible" future crimes. 

Mmmmm... I am conflicted on this. When my mother was going through chemotherapy (and my grandmother, for that matter), the only thing that helped to alleviate the nausea was a little pot. My father and I had to go into the hood to buy it, essentially making us criminals for trying to save the life of a loved one. I think it's certainly no more harmful than alcohol or tobacco- less so than alcohol, in my opinion. I do think in some circumstances, it is beneficial. For example, my brother is so incredibly intelligent, he really needs the occasional doobie just to relate to other human beings. He's kind of like Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory. I have a triple of rotgut whisky on Friday nights, he smokes a blunt with his friends. So long as neither of us try to drive within about eight hours, I don't see the harm.

As far as hard drugs are concerned, that's where it gets sticky. I suppose my assessment is based on the amount of collateral damage certain drugs can tend to do to people other than the user.

Both in my personal and professional life, I have seen a lot of unsettling things as a result of the use of illicit stimulants. Most of it has been from methamphetamine, but I've seen a little PCP and a fair amount of crack cocaine as well. Nothing good ever comes about from it. Users get paranoid, jumpy, and unpredictable. That can cause problems within the confines of their own homes (the number of domestic abuse calls I have been on almost invariably involve meth or crack), let alone when users run low and supply and have to venture into public in their altered state.

Certain "Hard Drugs" I do find a bit more innocuous than others. Heroin users are almost completely harmless, unless they've been cut off from their supply and starting to feel the first withdrawal pangs. Most just want to shoot up and nod off in a corner.

Psychedelics- while they can sometimes cause erratic behavior when combined with the right individual and surroundings- are pretty harmless to the populace at large. Users just want to noodle to some Phish and pretend they're a bird.

Ecstasy and Molly are a little more concerning to me, but only in the sense of the harm they can inflict upon the user. In that sense, I say let it be; if it's legal to give yourself cancer or cirrhosis, why should it not be legal to cook your brains at a party? It's your funeral and my paycheck, either way.

IN summation, while I cannot fully condemn nor condone, I tend to lean towards the idea of individual freedom, in moderation. I will confess t being a hardcore nicotine addict; I've tried to quit, but me without nicotine makes Charles Manson look like Charlie Brown. To each their own.

Truly insightful post.

"If oi canna drink moiself ta deth 'dn smoke ma lung till shes blacker than nioght oi can break moi moind if oi wish ta"

That's the thing, isn't it? We allow all these other substances, which cause equal if greater damage, what excuse can be provided to the contrary of personal use?

I think immediate outright legalization is a recipe for problems.  But, I think the feds ought to gradually withdraw themselves from the business of protecting people from their own stupidity.  You can't outlaw stupidity ... if it ain't heroin, it'll be marijuana.  If it ain't marijuana, it'll be oxy.  If it ain't oxy, it'll be booze.  If it ain't booze, it'll be tobacco.  If it ain't tobacco, it'll be gambling.  They'll just find something you haven't outlawed yet, as you gradually try to outlaw every vice you can think of.

But, I'm also against seatbelt laws, helmet laws, open container/ drinking-and-driving laws (as differentiated from drunken driving laws), and I think the vast majority of traffic laws are a mechanism for police-driven tax shakedowns ... so I may be outside the mainstream on how much I like the government protecting me from myself.


You can give Narcan to reverse opiate overdose.

You can give Flumazenil to reverse benzodiazepine overdose.

You can give Valium to prevent seizures from meth overdoses.

Kids, there ain't no cure for stupid.

Jack then YOU pay for the cost of treating any injuries you God forbid could incur by not wearing a seatbelt.   By that statement alone you invalidate your entire rap for personal responsibility. 


Latest Activity

Rafael replied to Rafael's discussion Bug?
"Hmmm... Nothing so far. Customer service? :)"
44 minutes ago
Satanist Dan added a discussion to the group AoM Secrets and Mysteries

Rituals of a supportive nature.

When one hears of the occult, mythologies, and "pagan" religion, coming from the Christianized western world, it's not a good thing that comes to mind. It is, however, that most occult persons align themselves with "White magic", and even Satanism has a Ritual of Compassion, attached below... But I've done many rituals of compassion, and in the end even if you're not a MAGIC MISSILE person, it's still very comforting to one that someone took time out of their lives, did a ritual - a set…See More
3 hours ago
Stein replied to Jack Bauer's discussion What'cha watchin'? Your manly entertainment recommendations, reviews and discussions ...
"Saw St . Vincent last weekend with Bill Murray in a fantastic role. So Fury the week before. Could not keep my eyes off the screen."
3 hours ago
Joshua Whitworth replied to Joshua Whitworth's discussion Prayers and Ideas for struggling men. in the group Christian Men
"It's really just a prayer request. If you don't mind taking a few seconds to stop and pray for me and keeping my emotions in check I guess that would be greatly appreciated. And I will pray for anything you need also. Sorry if the main…"
4 hours ago
Joshua Whitworth replied to Joshua Whitworth's discussion Prayers and Ideas for struggling men. in the group Christian Men
"Haha as helpful as that would be, prayers will suffice I'm sure. But I will think about this comment before I do anything too douchey."
4 hours ago
Joshua Whitworth replied to TheCommishGordon's discussion Serious questions from a Christian in the group Christian Men
"In my opinion, I see Christianity as great fire insurance, but it's way more than that. If you're being moral, then you want to help everyone. If you want to help everyone then you want to carry out the Great Commission (go and make…"
4 hours ago
Joshua Whitworth added a discussion to the group Christian Men

Prayers and Ideas for struggling men.

I know this isn't your typical theological question, but I feel it can be helpful. I personally need some prayer. I am struggling with guidance. I seem go be having some relationship trouble. I firmly believe God put this woman in my life to be wife one day (when funds and scheduling allow), but I keep picking fights about stupid things. I would like some prayer for guidance and how I should act. Thanks guys. I hope this thread ends up being a way for all of us guys to ask for some prayers.
4 hours ago
Paul Martin replied to James Sullivan's discussion Strange sexual dreams?
"Dreams happen my friend. I to have had an erotic dream focused on a woman from a long time ago that I never had a relationship with. Meditate on it, dreams are merely a symbol that only you can decode."
5 hours ago

© 2014   Created by Brett McKay.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service