Becoming, or Theosis (perhaps Apotheosis...you decide)
If our purpose, as humans, is to become more like the Creator...then why is the following so difficult to comprehend?
- That as we advance as a race, we will actually BECOME more like him, thereby removing some of the distance (mystically, scientifically, morally, whatever aspect you choose) between the Deity and ourselves.
- That when you're told that God is so Great that we will never be able to be like him, that you swallow it, hook, line, and sinker? This leads to a servile relationship with God, which is not what is intended.
- That our relationship with "The Holy Father" is intended to be a paternal relationship...in the BEGINNING. As we advance, as individuals and as a species, that relationship with The Holy Father will change, just as our relationship with our own fathers changed. Think about it...how do you interact with your father now, as opposed to when you were 5, and when you were 13, and 18? Much more of a relationship of two peers, ideally, isn't it?
- That no single "religion" is going to have all the answers. That as humans, we are tasked with finding the truth for ourselves (isn't there a quote by Jesus about searching out the truth somewhere?), and that means looking everywhere for it? Little known fact...what's the difference between the Christianity, Muslim, and Judaism? They all worship the same God, which is the God of Abraham....it's only key historical figures that are different.
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- That as we advance as a race, we will actually BECOME more like him, thereby removing some of the distance (mystically, scientifically, morally, whatever aspect you choose) between the Deity and ourselves.
- That when you're told that God is so Great that we will never be able to be like him, that you swallow it, hook, line, and sinker? This leads to a servile relationship with God, which is not what is intended.
- That our relationship with "The Holy Father" is intended to be a paternal relationship...in the BEGINNING. As we advance, as individuals and as a species, that relationship with The Holy Father will change, just as our relationship with our own fathers changed. Think about it...how do you interact with your father now, as opposed to when you were 5, and when you were 13, and 18? Much more of a relationship of two peers, ideally, isn't it?
- That no single "religion" is going to have all the answers. That as humans, we are tasked with finding the truth for ourselves (isn't there a quote by Jesus about searching out the truth somewhere?), and that means looking everywhere for it? Little known fact...what's the difference between the Christianity, Muslim, and Judaism? They all worship the same God, which is the God of Abraham....it's only key historical figures that are different.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Herb Munson on -
Well, it certainly would not be the first time that I missed the point. :) If so, I apologize. However, I do reject the thought that no one knows the truth nor will know it until we get on the other side. I say that because the One who is the Truth has come down from Heaven and lived among us and, even long before that turning point of earth history, was actively revealing himself to man. Then, he left behind his Word as the wholly sufficient record of it all.
Now, many many disagree completely ... but that does not nullify the truth just as those who believed that the world was flat nullified the fact that it was a sphere. My great concern and hope is not to win any arguments and certainly not to look down my nose at anyone but to merely make an attempt to whet anyone's appetite who is interested in investigating the Word of God for themselves and then draw their own conclusions. I am a beggar who has found bread and I simply want to share it with any other beggar who's hungry soul would like some.
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Permalink Reply by asa c mcguire on -
The only thing I will say in response is the world being flat was Proved completely and scientifically. In our current state of misunderstanding we have no proof yet hopefully some day but it is not the time for us. We can debate dogma from now until eternity but it brings us no proof on things. We must all follow that still small voice within and hope that when it is our time for understanding we will be ready to hear it. In this life or in the next.
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Permalink Reply by Deanna McGuire on -
1. I'm glad we agree that God loves all the world!!
2. "hundreds of precisely fulfilled prophecies within its pages"
Some would argue the same of the writings of Nostradamus.
to its amazing preservation
This would imply untouched and unchanged. I disagree.
to the impact that Jesus Christ has had on the world
I agree wholeheartedly!!! However, this isn't a testament to the veracity of the Bible as to the veracity of Christ's love for the world and the greatness of the man who made such a sacrifice.. out of LOVE.
to the millions of lives that it has changed for the better down through history
I would pose that it was not the Bible that did this... but the sacrifice of Christ.
to the selfless sacrifices of the follows of Christ to help the world around them
Yet again, I would pose that it was Christ who is responsible for this and none of these speak to the infallibility and veracity of every single scripture in the Bible.
to its supernatural consistency and infallibility even though written by many different authors over a period of over 1500 years and on 3 separate continents.
WHAT? Are you aware there are some followers of Christ who have books of the Bible that do not exist in the Bible most of us read? The fact that the books that are the same are identical is a testament to nothing other than the ability of mankind to make copies.
In short, none of this proves that your point is valid and mine is invalid.
3. I do not ATTACK the Bible. I question the infallibility of the Bible. I was not aware that I had stated you were a closed minded bigot. I believe I actually stated that I thought you were a decent man. However, I do extend my apologies if it appeared to you that I did.
4. What is interesting here is that you pose that those are my spins on love and not the Bible's meaning. It amazes me that you feel you and only you are the authority on the interpretations. I could pose the same to you..... That those are just your ideas and not the Bible's. I too believe that God is just and righteous and Holy.. however, I do not pretend to know the mind of God or what he deems just and righteous and Holy without err.
I also take a much broader interpretation of the scriptures that speak of Christ being the way to salvation. I do not take a literal interpretation to these nor many other verses of the Bible. I believe it could just as easily be interpreted that it is only through living one's life the way Christ lived his life and the way he taught us to love our lives... In love, compassion, forgiveness, non-judgement.... "none shall come to the father accept by me".... my interpretation.. none shall receive eternal life accept by living the way Christ lived.
You have your interpretations. I have my interpretations. Hundreds of other people have hundreds of other interpretations. It's really that simple. You can not prove that your interpretations are the correct one's no more than I or anyone else can prove their interpretations are the correct ones.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph L. Rogers on -
Wow... I've been swamped, lately, and not been by in a few days.
Asa, forgive me, but Deanna...wow. When you gonna dump that guy and run away with me? I am SO impressed. Your logic and reasoning is IMPECCABLE, and I LOVE how you understand the difference between fact and belief. Your husband is a lucky man, and I salute you.
Herb...I'm beginning to find it hard to take you seriously, if you're unwilling to look at anyone's viewpoint but your own as a possibility, which you seem to be demonstrating on a regular basis.
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Permalink Reply by Deanna McGuire on
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:-) Thank you, Joseph. Without logic and reason the world would be a scary and ugly place. It's not difficult to comprehend the difference between fact and belief. However, I believe some have more of an issue with it as a result of fear. It is very hard to question the things that have been hammered into your head your entire life and indeed very scary.
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Permalink Reply by asa c mcguire on
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yes a very lucky man. This was my point of the strong woman post many find her strong convictions hard to deal because she is a woman and smarter than the average bear. I find it refreshing and not to mention it keeps me from being mentally lazy and she is beautiful to boot. Yes lucky indeed thank god for that blind spell she had about 13 years ago. LOL
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Permalink Reply by Will on -
I don't think those points are difficult to comprehend in the least. They're stated very clearly.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph L. Rogers on
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Will...I'm not sure whether to laugh, or to smack you...
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Permalink Reply by Joseph L. Rogers on
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In that case, if you'd be so kind, try and clear up the original intent of that post from the 8th. Were you being sarcastic concerning the premise, were you making fun of my kooky ideas...what? I may have mis-understood.
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Permalink Reply by Will on
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You asked why these things were hard to comprehend. I don't think they are. I think you are perceiving *disagreement* with all or part of these views as *incomprehension* -- that is, that disagreement means stupidity.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph L. Rogers on
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No sir...I think what you're reading as my equating disagreement to stupidity is more a frustration on my part to even get anyone to discuss the premises and their actual plausibility. No-one (to my recollection) has put forth anything that refutes the premises I've laid out, aside from a big picture of Mork saying "Now, that's just CRAZY talk!"....and I find that frustrating, to say the least.
Everyone simply seems to think that it's just not POSSIBLE that it be as I've laid out. I've not really seen anyone take it beyond that, and that's what I'm looking for. THAT is where the incomprehension on the part of others comes in, I think. I have not called anyone stupid, nor do I intend to.
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