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The Great Debate

"Iron sharpens iron." A place for men to impact each other by debate and exchange of ideas. This is a group where no ideas are off limits. If your motto is, "I never talk about politics or religion," this group is probably not for you. A "gym" for thinkers.

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Discussion Forum

The USA should Promote States to Nations and from a Union of Nation States like the EU.

Started by David F.. Last reply by Nick H 2 hours ago. 21 Replies

Mohican made a comment the idea of States being able to secede from the US.  And that the USA should fall back to a status of Union rather then Nation.To my mind the effect is basically have the USA…Continue

How goes the war

Started by Sir. Last reply by Shane 2 hours ago. 359 Replies

Charles Krauthammer makes this interesting observation:  we are now in a new stage of the war on terror.  ( …Continue

Will Western civilization collapse?

Started by Persona non Grata. Last reply by Native Son 9 hours ago. 7 Replies

I don't want to panic but the economic and cultural changes I see disturb me in a lot of ways: 1. Obesity rates skyrocketing just within a few decades (after the advent of mainstream cable TV…Continue

The Nature of Life and Conception

Started by Pale Horse. Last reply by Pale Horse 20 hours ago. 11 Replies

This post assumes a Judeo-Christian worldview. If you want to challenge that, start another thread. Don't hijack this one, thank you.My father said something a while back that I am not sure I agree…Continue

Brexit

Started by Pale Horse. Last reply by Pale Horse on Tuesday. 138 Replies

So what do y'all think?

What's the worst evil one can commit?

Started by Persona non Grata. Last reply by Persona non Grata on Monday. 23 Replies

What's the worst evil one can commit? Most people would probably name actions like murder, rape, or child molestation.I think that the worst sin however is treachery; this ties in with Dante's…Continue

Unpopular Political and Religious Opinions

Started by Pale Horse. Last reply by Shane on Friday. 88 Replies

Figured we all have a lot of unpopular opinions that belong here in TGD.

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Comment by Persona non Grata 23 hours ago

I see a cunt holding a sign, but where's Trump?

Comment by Nick H on Sunday
Reminds me of a political leader we had in Newfoundland once named joey Smallwood. My father told me that when he campaigned door to door asking for the persons vote. If they replied something like ,"I'd never vote for you, you piece of @&€&&&&&@!!" He would turn to his assistant and say, "write that man down as "undecided "". :)
Comment by Shane on Sunday
He takes them in stride.
Comment by Nick H on Sunday
No offence to trump supporters but I got a kick out of this. In an age of memes, anonymous YouTube videos, and guy Fawkes masks, this Scottish woman's simply protest message to trump was kind of refreshing. Actually, seeing how he handles this sort of thing I'm surprised he didn't get his photo with her. A little NSFW by the way https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/4pnk9q/hey_everyone_trum...
Comment by David R. on June 15, 2016 at 8:43am

So much of it is cultural.  In college (late '60s and early '70s) I had male friends from Iran, Syria, and Lebanon (three were Muslim and one was Druze).  These supposedly straight guys had no problem with obtaining an erection and showing other guys their penis, or masturbating together, or even masturbating each other.  The line you didn't cross was being penetrated (either orally or anally).  That's where it changed from ordinary (acceptable) heterosexual activity to (unacceptable) homosexual activity.

That whole setting was quite a surprise to me, I can tell you that!

Comment by Persona non Grata on June 14, 2016 at 7:18pm

I can think of some exceptions, such as ancient Spartans or Samurai taking male lovers when isolated from women for long periods of time, but on the whole that's the rule I see.

Most of the cultures which are the most anti-gay seem to have a warrior ethos though regardless of religion. Examples include the Mongols and the Aztecs (where homosexuality was punishable by death); likewise Stalin criminalized homosexuality, and modern North Korea allegedly views it as a product of "Western degeneracy" despite it not being specifically illegal.

It's also not well tolerated in tribal African nations, in fact some of them might have a worse track record of gay tolerance than some Islamic countries.

(The Abrahamic societies, such as ancient Israel as of the Iron Age also seem to have been fairly tribal and warlike; this is likely where some of the more extreme anti-gay views in the Abrahamic faiths originate from).

Comment by Braeden P.D. on June 14, 2016 at 7:06pm

"(I suspect that societies with more of a warrior ethos were more anti-gay due to it being viewed as effeminate or a deviation from natural roles)."

False.

Comment by Persona non Grata on June 14, 2016 at 6:33pm

In a way the 'computer' argument isn't totally far off, at least in the sense of societies which are more abundant in resources seem to be more tolerant of homosexuals.

This would fit in with the interrelation between a society's views on homosexuality and it's emphasis on the importance of procreation; seeing as modern societies with low mortality, high life expectancy, etc are more sexually liberal in general.

Androgynous behavior in general also seems to be more tolerated, likely due to men and women performing more similar social roles (such as office jobs), in modern consumer economies, as opposed to less advanced societies which depended more on heavy physical labor and exertion.

(I suspect that societies with more of a warrior ethos were more anti-gay due to it being viewed as effeminate or a deviation from natural roles).

Brett discussed some of these topics in an article which is worth a read.

Comment by Liam Strain on June 13, 2016 at 10:04pm

All would be incorrect.

Comment by Pale Horse on June 13, 2016 at 9:07pm
No, I think he just meant to type "all."
 

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Nick H replied to David F.'s discussion The USA should Promote States to Nations and from a Union of Nation States like the EU. in the group The Great Debate
"Maybe like Star Trek's Federation?"
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