New Warriors

For discussing intense experiential work, owning the shadow, or any of the other things the ManKind Project is all about.

Members: 84
Latest Activity: Feb 20

Featured dicussion: What's your experience in MKP? Note the link in the 3rd post to an earlier discussion thread, in which more men answer the question.

Discussion Forum

I-group Judgements

Started by Ricky. Last reply by Ricky Feb 20. 4 Replies

Your experience in MKP

Started by Will. Last reply by Michael J. K. Jan 23. 31 Replies

MKP and the Community

Started by Carl Monster. Last reply by Carl Monster Oct 5, 2014. 19 Replies

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Comment by Michael J. K. on January 23, 2015 at 4:51am

Cassidy look within yourself.

It is not about what an Org is or is not.  We sometimes as humans invent what we things things should be or are.   Most of what we see things to be before they happen are not real.    How to you enter the weekend is how you need to live your life.   Enter your life first see how you need to be.  The weekend is the start of something bigger it is a change that comes from within and before you can change you have to understand what it is you need to do to change.   It is not about MKP it is about who you are as a man.  So much in this world is put upon us as men.    What this meant for me 19 years ago was me becoming more real.  Me making connections with other men who were also real and a man of their word with integrity and accountable.   Some go through the motions and never really become a man who is real and is there and it present and is strong and weak and feels things.   I feel things and when I say I am going to be somewhere or do something I am there.   Look at your self and see where you are and why you are thinking this way.  As I said before there are many ways to do this.  MKP provides a network of men that if you play your cards right becomes a place where you can grow and learn about yourself more.   And for any man who did not get what they wanted that is on them.  It is more an inner journey on the weekend not an outer one. 

Comment by Michael J. K. on January 23, 2015 at 4:42am

well said Tim

Comment by Tim Dienes on January 22, 2015 at 5:48am

Cassidy, I am replying to your post asking if it was possible to be too cynical about MKP. In all my various retreat and weekend experiences I have found that if I go into them with specific and overly high expectations, I was in actuality sabotaging the experience. I am quite emotional inside, and often wrestle through things, and can be "hypervigilant", monitoring myself, how much or little I am bonding, or how much I need my own space to deal with my inner battles. Outwardly, that might not show. I have found it best to "be in the current moment" and not try to "force" things to happen. I did not form strong frendships during my NWTA because as you can tell from what you read thus far, I was busy with my own thoughts and feelings. It is much healthier to see the NWTA as a kickoff and an initiation into a brotherhood that is supposed to grow in your local I-group. Being open and flexible to the experience is helpful. Without giving away any details, i can say confidently that what you encounter when you begin on Friday is not what the entire weekend will be like. Your HOBY sounds like a maddening monotony, which NWTA is not. Some processes had more meaning for me than others. Hold onto what means something to you, and forget what may not. As long as you make a sincere effort to be honest (faking does no good), open, and willing, and appreciate that fact that YOU always have the option of opting out of any process, so there is no compulsion to fear any imposed conditions. I had some unreasonable fears for a while, and was glad to see that they were totally my invention. You know that you will get out of anything what you put into it. Also, our minds tend to run about a day behind when it comes to assimilating our experiences. So withholding judgement is a good attitude to maintain until the entire weekend is complete. In  my case, Iron John was not a major impact, but allow it to be whatever positive it can for you. The lingo or transformative myth as you call it is not the most important thing. Allowing your own truth to come forth from you is.

Comment by Will on January 22, 2015 at 12:36am

The "carpet work" we do in our weekly meetings does seem like acting to me:  not acting as in pretending to a belief or attitude, but as in playing a role as actors do.  "So, you're playing the role of Joe's inner critical voice.  Say these lines, then.  OK, Joe, how does that feel?" If that clarifies anything.

Comment by Will on January 22, 2015 at 12:32am

Groupthink is a risk.  Our protocols discourage it, but it can happen anyway.  We're supposed to present processes whereby you can get where you want to go, not beliefs so you can get where somebody else thinks you should.  Sometimes members are too stuck in their own beliefs or dramas to get the difference.  

Fellow warriors, please remember, we don't discuss anything that happens on the weekend, by agreement.

Cassidy, why don't you see if you can visit an existing I-group to see what they do?  It won't perfectly echo NWTA, but there'll be commonalities, and what happens after the weekend is important too!

Comment by Michael J. K. on January 21, 2015 at 11:28pm

I have done many things before and after MKP and by the way when I did new warrior there was no MKP that was added later for a new name for the non profit.

There are many ways to grow and learn and no one way works for everyone.   It is a good thing to do any thing for growth with the mindset this is an inner journey as well and what is going on around you is not always the most important thing.   It is a balance and when someone starts over thinking they are making something more than what it is.   This is just a weekend with men with the intention of coming out of this weekend with a better understanding of our lives and where we want to go.  They put this together in a way to help men grow and learn.

Being accountable and in integrity are things that are important to some.  There are many variables.   It is better to go into something not know a lot about the process so it does not ruin it for the potential growth from what you will go through.  Prior to MKP I was in many retreats and seminars for personal growth .   The local retreats were just as good as MKP and many of the men in my men's groups went.  This is around 1990.   After being on over

50 retreats of many kinds not just MKP and working on some of them and running a few, it is more about wanting to improve yourself.   You can climb out into the wilderness by yourself and wait for a vision.  You can do a lot of things.  For me the I groups were good and I do things outside sometimes with them.  It is being able to say anything and not be judged and my groups are with men who care deeply for me and my life.   I have grown so much and love everyone in my groups.   I have moved away from kalamazoo MI and lost contact with many men in the local group, but there are still 5 or 6 that would do anything for me.   Places where men share things and learn and grow and create relationships are all great not just MKP.  I have experienced a lot of things and have met many men.  I can not speak for every weekend and most of my MKP is in Michigan some in DC and now in MN.  One thing I can say is going through with someone working on the weekend who cares and knows you is a good thing.  Not everyone going through will get the same thing it is different for everything.

ask questions about what you want in life where you are going or what you want to do.

It is all good.   MKP is not the end all in retreats and also just as a not more types of trainings have been developed and the new warrior training is not all that is offered by MKP

Comment by Michael J. K. on January 21, 2015 at 11:04pm

where ever did you think you need to play act

the carpet work has nothing to do with acting

I have never ever heard it stated in this way.

Carpet work happens it is not planned and it is working on something early on in your life.

IT is not play acting at all. 

Comment by Stephen Larsen on January 21, 2015 at 7:16pm

I hear your concerns Cassidy.

For me, I took it all as just something to experience. I already had my own belief system going into Warriors. In the different processes and things I experienced, I actually felt stronger in my beliefs and reaffirmed in them as well. Warriors offered me some new perspectives that I hadn't thought of before. The nature of the experience may have given me a different truth then what another man may have gained.

As far as "play-acting" is concerned, that comes pretty naturally to me but I don't think you need it in order to get anything out of the weekend. The processes will challenge you emotionally but I don't think any certain skills are required for the weekend.

As far as strangers into friends is concerned--yeah, that was my experience. I made great friends on the weekend. Some of them I don't keep in touch with but when I see them at weekends or trainings, we just pick right back where we left off. We may even have to remind one another of our names. But the friendship and community is real. It's really quite unique.

Comment by Cassidy on January 21, 2015 at 1:27pm
Will, the HOBY conference was a whirlwind 72 hours mostly confined in an off-season ski lodge. We were grouped according to geography and were told that, if our local written applications warranted further discussion, we would be peeled off from our rooming group for a special interview before representatives were chosen for a national HOBY conference. We were lodged 4 guys to a room, got almost no sleep, were required to wear identical red t-shirts (causing us to become an impromptu parade wherever we went), and were forced to sing the Wyatt Earp theme song constantly. During the daily sessions, we were given absolute bullshit speeches from a number of corporate "leaders." I was horrified by the group-think on display, and super-pissed the whole weekend felt like a young Republicans training camp. There was to be a final banquet on Sunday evening when your parents arrived to pick you up. I met mine at the gate to the "compound" with my backpack. I refused to subject myself to one more second of the disturbing rah-rah capitalism propaganda. Two days of no sleep and singing that stupid Wyatt Earp song just made me angry.

While I do not, for an instant, think that the NWTA would be exactly similar, I worry that my inability to "play-act" will be a hindrance to my getting anything substantial out of the weekend. I'm extremely loathe to want to physically pantomime my issues "on the rug" as I've read occurs. The fellowship/brotherhood aspects of strangers coming together and leaving as friends really appeals to me. But it seems almost a fantasy - like, if I can't buy in to the "Iron John" role-playing, then the transformation will never happen. I fear leaving the weekend still alone, sleepless, hungry and again, kinda pissed by what I subjected myself to. How much do you have to buy in to the lingo/transformative myth in order to get something positive out of the experience?
Comment by Carl Monster on January 21, 2015 at 12:01pm

Think carefully about it, and WHY you want to go.

For me it was mostly to find brothers, the ones you hear are made there (see Michael's comment). I went to one too far away in my judgement. For me, friendship and bonding happens with frequent contact. I have not seen one person from my weekend's PIT, and I'm sure I will not see anyone again unless I attend that particular weekend location, and that was quite a haul, so I know that's not happening.

As for all MKP men being automatic brothers, that's a load of crap. I attended a weekend closer to me and the reception I got ranged from "whatever" to borderline hostile.

Good luck whatever you decide.


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