A place to fellowship and discuss the issues of being an LDS man in today’s world.

Location: In the world but not of the world.
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Latest Activity: Aug 21

Discussion Forum

If, When, and Where?

Started by Ammon Beckstrom. Last reply by Spencer H Jul 18. 59 Replies

Camaraderie in Priesthood Quorums

Started by Kevin Lash. Last reply by Kit the Odd Feb 19. 24 Replies

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Comment by J. D. on July 8, 2015 at 8:14am

Yeah, right!  There's no way I'll be getting that call.  Amusing thought though.

Comment by Jon Z on July 8, 2015 at 2:12am

Hey everyone, what is going on? Which two of you will be getting phone calls in October?

Comment by Scott J on June 19, 2015 at 9:32pm

A significant announcement today: The release of the Freedmen's Bureau records.

Freedmen's Bureau Release

Comment by Mongoose on June 17, 2015 at 8:53am

JD. It's really a non-issue and I should not have brought it up. If you like the goatee, or if you like facial hair, grow it. You don't need to come up with an excuse such as vision. Just do it because you like it.

If others have an issue with it, give them some brotherly instruction on the difference between culture and Doctrine. Perhaps they will walk away enlightened.

Comment by J. D. on June 17, 2015 at 8:42am

I've never really thought about it, but I suppose you're right.  While I went school with a number of blind and low-vision students, I have been exposed to very few since then.  It's possible a few of them grow something or other, but I wouldn't be able to see it unless I got close enough, which is way too close.  It may turn out that the maintenance is not worth it or even possible for me, but I like the way it looked and felt back when I had one, so I would like to try again and see how it goes.  For me, shaving is a real pain since there always seem to be areas I miss or I get cut or get razor burn very easily.

Comment by Mongoose on June 16, 2015 at 2:20pm

JD, yea, I didn't mean to imply you were blind. I was just giving the hyper-version of low vision. I presumed you were just VI, not Blind.

I do know some dudes who are blind who shave their heads rather than grow worried over if their hair is OK. Generally, I think most guys who are blind just opt for short hair that's windproof so they don't fuss with it.

And, as you point out, each persons' function with what vision they have will be unique to that person.

The only thing I was pointing out is that low vision seems a very odd reason to grow a goatee rather than shave as it's more difficult to maintain the lines of facial hair than shave.

Comment by J. D. on June 16, 2015 at 1:01pm

First off, I am not totally blind.  I am a low-parcial, which means I have some usable vision.  Second, I only had my goatee all those years ago for a few weeks, and what trimming there was during that time was not hard for me to do on my own.  As far as convenience goes, I have a  friend who is totally blind that has been shaving his head since his college years because he just doesn't want to deal with maintaining a look for the benefit of everyone around him.  It's all a matter of how much vision the person has and what they're willing to do or try.

Comment by Mongoose on June 16, 2015 at 7:38am

Note:  most men who are completely blind shave daily rather than attempt a beard. As a professional in the field, I will say that it was quite a surprise when we had a keynote speaker, who was totally blind, who sported a beard. When I inquired of it later, it turns out his wife is a hair dresser and does his beard for him.

Comment by Mongoose on June 16, 2015 at 7:36am

As said, I am sorry the people in your life are so hung up on culture rather than doctrine. I can assure you that many leaders here have beards and no one says a word.

JD, I find it interesting that you claim you grew a goatee due to vision loss. It's actually much easier for  blind man to shave every day than to maintain facial hair. It takes far more acute vision skills to trim, edge, etc. facial hair. Shaving clean requires none, as it can be done by feel, alone.

Comment by J. D. on June 16, 2015 at 7:30am

John Z:  I agree with you 100% about the whole beard thing within the church.  I don't know why it is such a big deal.  Some years ago, I decided to try growing a goatee, largely because, as someone with a significant vision loss, shaving is rather difficult, especially on the jaw line and neck.  I grew a pretty good goatee in a little over two weeks, then went to a stake Priesthood meeting with my Dad one night.  Of the three guys who came up to say hi to me that I hadn't seen in a long time, one was fine with it, another remarked that he didn't like it or think it was appropriate for a man in the church to grow facial hair, and the third, who had been a scout leader of mine when I was about 10 and hadn't seen in many years, started to walk over and say hi, then took one look at my goatee and simply walked off as though he hadn't seen me at all.  I could not believe it was such a big deal, especially with the older guys.  I would love to try growing out the goatee again, especially since I was told it really looked good on me, but I don't want to have to deal with that kind of shallowness and judgement every week.  As I said, for me, it's not so much about style or trends or making a statement as much as it's a matter of practicality.  If it's hard for me to shave a certain area, it's just easier to grow it into something that looks good.


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Michael D. Denny replied to Specs's discussion Movember 2015
"Meh. The whole thing is a bit too hipster for me. I just quietly write checks to the charities that are closest to my heart and roll out. The mustache is purely because I like it."
1 hour ago
Michael D. Denny replied to Mongoose's discussion Thoughts on the Baltimore Ravens Cheerleader who Raped a 15 Year Old?
"Sounds like, well, the implications of having a sexual relationship with purtty much anyone regardless of age. What you just described was not the emotional and psychological issues of a 15 year old boy with a grown woman. What you just described…"
2 hours ago
David R. replied to Pale Horse's discussion "Dear Fat People" in the group The Great Debate
"Part of the problem is the assumption that not-fat people are healthy (and exercise and watch their diet) while fat people are unhealthy (they do not exercise or watch their diet).  These are gross exaggerations.  (For example, i am a fat…"
2 hours ago
Specs posted a discussion

Movember 2015

I was just wondering if any of y'all plan on contributing or doing anything for Movember this year? As you all (should probably) know Movember is a cause/movement where men grow mustaches for the month of November to raise awareness for mens health concerns and problems.  It's a good cause and I am just wondering what you normally do?  Last year I grew a mustache.  I tried to find a picture but I guess I didn't take any.  Feel free to share your mustache pictures from the past or for this year…See More
2 hours ago
David Hernández Nieto updated their profile
2 hours ago
David R. replied to Mongoose's discussion Thoughts on the Baltimore Ravens Cheerleader who Raped a 15 Year Old?
"Thank you,"
3 hours ago replied to Mongoose's discussion Thoughts on the Baltimore Ravens Cheerleader who Raped a 15 Year Old?
"I worked for years at a mental health agency that specialized in the treatment of survivors of sexual abuse.  I'm just going to talk about cases of boys in their mid-teens who were willing sexual participants with much older…"
3 hours ago
David R. replied to Mongoose's discussion Thoughts on the Baltimore Ravens Cheerleader who Raped a 15 Year Old?
"I am over it.  One of the main non-sexual issues it left for me (and for other boys molested by males) is the difficulty in trusting men -- when most of your bosses are men, that can be a big issue.  Usually it takes a guy to reach his 30s…"
3 hours ago

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