"I didn't see where or when the cop 'seized' the weapon. Did he ask for it or did he grab it from the guy's holster or hand? If it was handed over then it isn't seizure it is reliquishment."
Christian Humanism (Hey, And Secular too)
This is a rant from a previous AoM discussion so it's a little raw but ...
"good luck with that."
Hey, I noticed you on the writing site. I don't know what authors you
like but I find that atheists and Christians alike tend to love Steinbeck.
My wife and I both love Steinbeck - and one of the things that people love
about Steinbeck is his humanistic love of man's power to choose his
destiny.
Thus the last line of East of Eden is an old Hebrew word Timshel.
And the reason why Steinbeck's work is so powerful.
Men are not animals. I don't care if you're a Nietzsche-style atheists or
a "Born Again" Christian - Christians seek to become more like Christ - the
epitome of what is best in man. And even nutty Nietzsche sought for man to
walk the tightrope between Man and Superman (great play by Shaw by the
way).
Do you now deny that man can strive to be more than man - or do you
subscribe to the idea that primordial mud is what man is and thus must
forever remain?
Is that what you call love of humanity - which people impugn Christians
for not having? It sounds like Nihilism to me.
Are we as Dawkins describes us in the selfish gene - simply looking for a
repository for our seed - seeking to pass on our genes - our genes having
their own will such that ours as men is made moot? Survival is all there is to
us? As if man is little more than a virus, which scientists can't even
determine whether it is technically alive (look up what I mean by viruses
not necessarily being alive if you don't know what I mean).
Is man not more than a virus? Is man not more than that which seeks to
propagate itself with our minds, passions, joys and pain being nothing -
man is just a mindless virus - controlled by our selfish genes? In that
nihilistic view, man is nothing but an elaborate vehicle for the
propagation of the molecule deoxyribonucleic acid.
Yes, I do wish Matt, "good luck with that" - and you should to - if you
dare to call yourself a man - but maybe you prefer to be a virus.
I personally do not choose that and I urge every man here - whether
humanist atheists or Conservative Christian - at least thus atheists and
Christians can agree on one thing - man is something more than a virus -
man is a man, and even if we can't completely agree on what that means, it
means more than mindless slavery to natural forces.
I "choose" to be more than that and I encourage other men to be empowered
thus as well.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bryan Lee Sammis on
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Clint. I must compliment you! Why? Because you had the "stones" to say what I have thought about almost all of my life!!!
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Permalink Reply by Clint Connolly on -
Well, it didn't take stones. I can easily go off on rants. It's tough to know when a rant is good or completely childish and selfish.
I guess I don't understand secular humanism - because even though it is completely different than Christian humanism, it has some common things.
So tell me what you think about this. I'd love to hear more of what people think - I'm glad to hear you liked what I said - but I'm glad to hear complaints about it too - I was hoping Liam S. would rip apart my rant but no one's come close to this discussion.
So, Bryan, give me your position and we can sharpen each other - this is an interesting and perplexing topic to me and I want to know what others think.
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what is truly scarey, is I'm almost in lockstep with you.
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Permalink Reply by NYGayBear on
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Hmmmm, you can choose to think your not an animal.....but it certainly doesnt negate the last couple million years of evolution. Sure we have competitive advantages, one being our level of intelligence.......which I why I chose not to be a mindless slave to superstions............
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Permalink Reply by Clint Connolly on
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It's doesn't stop you from being a virus.
But are you a humanist?
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Permalink Reply by Liam S. on -
I've mostly left this alone Lee, because for the most part, I cannot really discern what it is you are saying here.
Is it just a declaration of your choice to be more than a virus? If so, i agree with you. Despite our origins and the evolutionary pressures that brought us here, we are now thinking, choosing creatures and can choose to not be slave to our nature. Our fates are not written in our DNA any longer.
Was there something more to what you were ranting about? If so, please clarify.
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Permalink Reply by Liam S. on
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Err - Clint. Sorry. I was in discussion with Lee earlier, and my brain didn't fully swap over. :)
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Permalink Reply by Clint Connolly on
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Hahaha - Yeah, I'm pretty ... um, unclear at times.
No, I'm not making a firm point - I was refuting someone who was saying basically what GayBear said which is that we're animals.
So your answer that we're not just our DNA (aka animal instincts?) is what I would expect a humanist to say and something we'd both agree with.
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Permalink Reply by Liam S. on
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Correct. We are animals, but we have the option of choosing to behave better than that.
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Permalink Reply by Clint Connolly on
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Thanks, Liam, that's really all I'm trying to say on this discussion but it amazes me that people will so often argue as if they have no choice but to be an animal. I don't see how a Humanist has to be an animal - that is some sort of weird acetic evolutionary atheism, not Humanism. After all, "animal" can have many connotations.
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