History Buffs

A place for history buffs to discuss historical issues and expand the knowledge of our past. Whether your into US history, European history, African history, or any other, come join us!

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Discussion Forum

Finding the "Old Ones": Who really settled North America first?

Started by Jack Neulist. Last reply by Karl Helweg Oct 16. 153 Replies

Lately, I've found myself interested in a subject far outside my specialty.I grew up in the Southwest, and I've heard some stories about "Old Ones" etc. who predated the Indians. Until last year, I'd…Continue

"It is timely to remember the very great cultural debt that we owe to Greece..."

Started by Vytautas. Last reply by Vytautas Jun 29. 11 Replies

A group of classicists sent a letter to The Telegraph newspaper in the U.K., urging readers to consider the great cultural debt we all owe Greece as the IMF and EU consider Greece's 323 billion Euro…Continue

Fu Go

Started by Paul H. Last reply by Vytautas Jun 28. 16 Replies

I was listening to a podcast recently, titled Fu Go. They were talking about balloons with bombs attached that were launched from Japan to attack the USA. The bombs were dropping too low and landing…Continue

combat treports

Started by Matt Daly. Last reply by Matt Daly Jun 22. 3 Replies

Ive recently through facebook got into doing more research into my Grandad's war time efforts. He was a mid upper gunner in Lancaster bomber in the RAF. A group made by relatives of his squadron…Continue

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Comment by Travis Spuhler on June 25, 2015 at 5:38pm
Comment by Kenneth on June 25, 2015 at 11:50am

My point remains. The South has been a convenient scapegoat for a long time. Even if it were a hermetically-sealed bastion of the most ridiculous PC garbage, somebody would still feel the need to denigrate it. 

And personally, I'm pleased to read and entertain other opinions and viewpoints, but I generally disregard those of people who are obviously too far from the matter to have any real insight or fully-formed awareness gained from real experience. It would be like me showing up at a convention of MIT physicists and trying to pontificate about nuclear fusion.

My late father had a Confederate flag tattoo on his arm he got during his time in the military. His best bud and fishing companion was a black man. If all this PC rubbish had any grain of truth to it, then from any standpoint, that friendship apparently never should have existed.

Comment by Travis Spuhler on June 24, 2015 at 12:18am

I do agree with Sir, but at the same time, it seems like there are people out there who, if you bring this sort of subject up at another time, they'll say, "it's not a good time right now"

But the thing is, it's a difficult subject for many people to talk about, so there's never a "good" time to talk about it. It doesn't really get any easier to talk about some things, which is why when a tragedy strikes a community like it did in SC, it really gives an opening into that discussion that really makes you wonder about the people who prefer to deflect to "another time".

Comment by Pale Horse on June 23, 2015 at 9:46pm

I agree with that first part, Will. It is just classic race-baiting that for some reason everyone has bit into without question. I have tried to ignore it before,

Comment by Sir on June 23, 2015 at 9:17pm

For me, the flag issue seems like changing the subject.  9 people were murdered.  The survivors have shown the love of Christ to the shooter, and the state is going to show him justice.  Compared to that, the flag is trivia.  I agree it needs to go, but I find putting it in the same conversation trivializes what they're going through.

Or, if you prefer,

I find putting it in the same conversation trivializes what they're going through -- but I agree it needs to go.

Comment by Steve Dallas on June 23, 2015 at 8:19pm

To be a Texan means I can embrace the good parts of the south and laugh at those "protecting" the bad parts. Biscuits and gravy, from my cold dead bloated fat hands; the losing battle flag, buh bye

Comment by Fred S Davenport, Jr on June 23, 2015 at 7:31pm

One last comment. This is a good read and gets to the heart of the issue:

Comment by Fred S Davenport, Jr on June 23, 2015 at 7:10pm

As I have been reading this line as well as what is being written and said here in the South, I am starting to wonder if indeed the Charleston shooter is somewhat accomplishing his goal. I see a lot of people on social media and in the local news reacting to the possibility of removing the flag. Passions are rising, and I think we may well see physical conflict in places. Southern heritage still runs DEEP in the South.

Comment by Vytautas on June 23, 2015 at 6:39pm
This is probably something that deserved its own thread but now the battle lines are pretty well-drawn, and unlikely that either side will budge. But I will say that on the whole, neo-confederates are unaware of the larger dialectic on race and history and historiography in which they partake. It's definitely a position that is tone-deaf on race, never considerate of primary evidence, and insensitive about violence. That lack of self-awareness is a significant contributor to making neo-confederacy an intellectually illegitimate position.
Comment by Pale Horse on June 23, 2015 at 6:16pm

Vy, re: your statement that the South was built on the backs of slaves

The North used slaves before the mass industrialization that eventually occurred. It was only outlawed because it no longer suited that area's purposes. By your logic most flags, including many of the U.S.'s, would be an equal symbol of evil.

I would also like to point out that had the C.S.A. succeeded in seceding, emancipation probably would occurred there by the end of the century. Robert E. Lee pushed the freeing of slaves who fought for the Confederacy (It just so happened Richmond fell as black regiments were forming. A day late and a dollar short). Jefferson Davis, Confederate Sec. of State Judah P. Benjamin, and Louisianan congressman Duncan F. Kenner were also secretly working on a deal with England and France that involved freeing the slaves. Davis wanted to use his emergency powers for emancipation but Benjamin correctly advised him against it due to the immense backlash he would receive from Congress.


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