From the founding of the colonies to the declaration of the Supreme Court, America's heritage is built up on the principles of the Christian religion. And yet the secularists are dismantling this foundation brick by brick, attempting to deny the very core of our national life.
You weigh the evidence. Consider the following facts which are being systematically erased from our nation's memory:
Christianity is written on every page of America's amazing history.
Well-documented facts tell the truth about America's Christian past as it relates to supreme court justices, and presidents; the Christian character of colonial charters, state constitutions, and the US Constitution; the Christian foundation of colleges, the Christian character of Washington, D.C.; the origin of Thanksgiving and so much more.
History-bashing has become a favorite hobby of psuedo-intellectuals in our time, especially where Christianity has played a prominent role in the shaping of past events. I saw this book review on Amazon and couldn't help reminisce about a time not long ago when these historical facts weren't taken for granted, nor were they disputed by those intent on rewriting history. When our current President said “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation – at least, not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.” the caterwauling of those on the right was heard for weeks. We have always been a country open to all religions but our foundations were undeniably Christian, thus the reputation throughout our short history of being a Christian Nation.
When Kirk Fordice (1934-2004), former Governor of Mississippi, stated that "America is a Christian nation," the response to those opposed to this self-evident historical truth bordered on the hysterical. The governor's controversial remarks landed him on CNN. His comments are perceptive and irrefutable. He stated simply:
Christianity is the predominant religion in America. We all know that's an incontrovertible fact. The media always refer to the Jewish state of Israel. They talk about the Muslim country of Saudi Arabia, of Iran, of Iraq. We all talk about the Hindu nation of India. America is not a nothing country. It's a Christian Country.
Fordice went on to cite "surveys noting that 86 percent of Americans consider themselves Christian, but praised America's ethnic diversity. 'It's the true melting pot of the world.' he said. 'That's the strength of our country, and the strength certainly is not enhanced by denying simple facts that Christianity is the predominate religion.'"
My question to you is this. If we were a Christian Nation, are we now? Are we now a post-Christian Nation? If so, why? What has caused the change? You may answer yes or no, but I would also like to know the thinking behind your answer and how you support your answer.
Many thanks and blessings.
You're right on! All readers of this Blog out there have to read "the Harbinger" by Jonathan Cahn. America, just like Isreal was a chosen nation by God, favored by God as long as we obeyed and remained in God (Read Jesus). Israel suffered at the hands of the Assyrians, a depotic anti-christian lot that God shall destroy. But he used them to punish the wayward Israel. Today, he's using their direct bloodline decendants from the missle east to draw into battle and punish america again. These people are Iraq, Iran, al qaeda, and any other 'terrorist' in the world that hates america. God shall destroy all these anti-christian peoples. America has moved away from God for 70 years already since the ban on prayer and christian sayings etc were removed from public places. NOW, we choose leadership that is not Christian, even a mormon has false beliefs - we had no God-like choice in this past election. God has removed our favored protecte status and all the calamities we're seeing since 911 are allowed to punish. Just like in Israel, God has bent over backwards waiting w/ a lot of grace for us backsliding nation to repent and return to him. Whoa to us and whoa to the assyrians. They are an enemy of God and now they live among us and lead us.
Certainly we are a nation whose founders were steeped in the Judeo-Christian tradition, but they were also pretty clear about the fact that religion and government were not to intertwine too closely. Jefferson, Madison (especially in the federalist papers) and others were quite clear on this. Repeatedly.
The Treaty of Tripoli, as signed by president John Adams (whom you quote above) and ratified by congress says pretty clearly:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
We cannot ignore that many of the founders were religious men, and certainly this shaped their philosophies and the laws and ideas they used to create the backbone of this country. But that is a different thing than "being a Christian nation."
So, I answer that I do not think we were ever a Christian nation - not at the founding, and not now, despite being a nation of mostly Christians. Especially if the being a Christian nation means believing anything about its population like Vern's statements suggest - I do not think the founders shared his particular take on Christianity.
You're wasting your time. But thanks for the input about the Treaty of Tripoli, that was informative.
As our nation is built solely on our cultural values, rather than on any sort of ethnic grounds, and as Christianity is one of the primary influences of the American culture, I think that it's reasonable to call this a Christian nation. That doesn't, however, mean that we have a Christian state... we never have and, Deo volente, we never will.
My two cents. A big part of the first amendment revolves around the distaste for an "official, government sanctioned church". The British government had an official church, and the nascent United States wished to preserve the traditional American freedom to choose a form of worship without either requiring obesience to an official church or a church tax.
As to Jefferson's remarks in the Tripoli Treaty, that's there to emphasize that any response to violations of the Treaty were not going to be based on religious considerations. It was also there to remove one of the traditional "Musselmen" causus belli.
I agree - the Treaty of Tripoli is not the only piece of evidence though - just one that spells it out quite nicely. We can argue that they didn't mean what they wrote in it (or that it was only there to appease the audience), but we cannot know original intent for certain. I have to assume that they mean what they ratified and signed.
Of course, the Constitution only applied to prevent a federal, American church. The States continued to sponsor churches into the mid-19th century, and stopped at the request of the churches, and not as a result of a law suit or other constitutional crisis.
Liam is correct and we have to be VERY careful not to adopt an intolerant attitude towards those who are religious, but just don't believe like we do.
I think I understand what you're getting at. The problem however is not one of political correctness, but practicality. When our Constitution was being drawn up, we came perilously close to having an official state religion - with a different one in each state. It was for this reason that our religious freedom was founded. All or almost all of the signers were deeply 'religious' men, even though Thomas Jefferson (for example) was said to be a deist and not a Christian. That is why the Bill of Rights, the Preamble and the Constitution all allude to the Divine in the form of the Creator or the Father and not Jesus Christ, Son of God.
It was for this reason that the Jewish people felt at ease living among Christians, especially during the horror of Nazi Germany. And the Jewish people are well aware of that acceptance.
The problem is: when we say 'We are a Christian nation' we are proclaiming to be a nation of Christians only - and one that only tolerates like minded people. This is more like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan than the United States. Properly speaking, we are a nation "of Christians" with a rich history built on Christianity.
Today, the greater problem is that Islam takes advantage of our freedoms, setting up 80 mosques in Houston alone, and beheading infidel Christians in their own countries.
It is for that reason, i favor a 'reciprocal foreign policy' where we treat YOUR immigrants the same as Americans are treated in your home country. But... that's an argument for another forum!
Nation of 'christians' is a better way to put it. Got to be careful not to disobey God.
It is for that reason, i favor a 'reciprocal foreign policy' where we treat YOUR immigrants the same as Americans are treated in your home country.
care to elaborate, and explain how this is supported by the Christian worldview? 'cause i'm very interested.
I apologize and I realize I should not have mentioned that because it combines two different views: one as an individual and the other as a nation. Most people will get hung up and say we should do one and the same.
You're right, that is a difficult Christian worldview. The only way I can answer that is in the Ten Commandments where it says "Thou shalt not kill." Compare that to the instruction, ".an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." Keep in mind that God told the people many times to go to war (killing). The answer is that the commandment against murder was given to us as individuals. (As individuals, we do not have that right) The call to war and an edict for punishment was given NOT to individuals, but to all of us collectively as the 'state.' That is why a Christian who sits on a jury to sentence a man to death is NOT guilty of murder. He is acting with others in agreement, in the capacity of the 'state' and not as a person.
While I am bound by the Golden Rule to treat my Muslim neighbor in Christ's love, Christians who must determine foreign policy must consider national safety and security above all else. If we didn't do that, we would be a totally pacifist nation, with no Christians in the military; and no Christian national leaders.
Jesus told us to "not to resist an evildoer. On the contrary, whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well" (Matthew 5:39)l, "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:44), and "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."(8:7).
These fly in the face of some of the OT commands such as an eye for an eye and since we are Christians and not Jews surely Christ's commands overrule them?