Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Stephen Washington on February 7, 2013 at 11:11pm

Personally, I wouldn't trust a Muslim, no matter how secularized his country of origin might be.

It's tempting for you, I'm sure, but I promise, she's not worth it.

Permalink Reply by Josh on February 7, 2013 at 11:29pm

Stephen, this popped up on the Latest activity window, and I had to join this group just to tell you that you are a hateful shit head.

Permalink Reply by Stephen Washington on February 8, 2013 at 12:52am

Is that supposed to make me change my mind about Islam or Muslims?

Or perhaps you think I actually care about your opinion of me?

Permalink Reply by Paul_of_TX on February 8, 2013 at 3:35pm

Gosh, why can't you trust people who believe it is permissible and sometimes honorable to lie to you.

Permalink Reply by Liam S. on February 9, 2013 at 3:20pm

Certainly Yahweh didn't have many issues with some lying if it suited his needs.

God instructs Elisha to lie to Hazel. (II Kings)

Jeremiah is instructed by Zedekiah to lie to the officials - this seems condoned by God. (Jeremiah 38)

The midwives lie to Pharoh, and God compliments and rewards them (Exodus)

God instructs Samuel to mislead the elders (Samuel 16)

And of course, Paul is happy to "become all things to all men" a "Jew to the Jew and Greek to the Greeks" - not necessarily the most honest portrayal of oneself. 

I don't think we need a tit-for tat, your holy book says this, and permits that, but we should recognize that not every word written is necessarily followed 100% by every adherent. And permission to lie in certain circumstances does not mean that someone necessarily will - much less that a given group of people is even necessarily less trustworthy because of it. 

Permalink Reply by Liam S. on February 8, 2013 at 2:21am

Not particularly Christian of you to pre-judge someone (or an entire group of someones) based on their religion alone. Especially when the biggest factor in what a persons religion is, is their country of birth and their parents religion - something over which they have no control.

Permalink Reply by Paul_of_TX on February 8, 2013 at 3:29pm

Stephen said he would not trust a Muslim. The Muslim religion permits Muslims to lie to non-believers. It doesn't sound like there is any judging going on here. More of him looking at facts and accepting them.

Permalink Reply by Stephen Washington on February 8, 2013 at 4:53pm

How do you know it's prejudice?

You remind me of all the liberals who have accused anyone that disagrees with Obama on any issue of being racist and prejudice, simply because they might disagree with his policies or agendas.  It's more of an ad hominem than a segue to meaningful discussion, so let's continue with full awareness than I think your opinion, based on your one initial, malicious comment, is shallow, puerile, and vapid.

Understand that the 9th surah of the Koran commands Muslims to murder both Christians and Jews, to wage war upon them, and to fight them until they pay the jizya, or are eradicated from the Earth. The Koran teaches the domination, through war, murder, deceit, and any other means necessary, of Islam over all other belief systems. Understand also that the Koran is not the only holy scripture for Muslims. There is also the hadith, or the collected teachings of Muhammad (whereas the Koran was the inspired word of Allah). Since Muhammad was not only the prophet of Allah, but also the perfect example of what a Muslim should do, say, and believe (much like Jesus is for Christians) then studying the hadith in order to understand Islam and Muslims is paramount.

The 48th surah of the Koran promises material rewards for anyone who wages war on Jews and Christians.  And we all know the promise of 72 virgins, who magically become virgins again every morning, for any male who dies in service to Allah (the same promise is not made to females, and certain lines of Islamic thought actually hold that females are not allowed in heaven).

Furthermore, if we look at Muhammad's history after he supposedly received his divine revelation from Allah, he portrays a history of establishing treaties and truces with his foes, and suddenly breaking those treaties and murdering his opponents whenever doing so would benefit him.  Look at the treaty with Khaybar in 629AD, or the Treaty of Hudaybiyya in 628.

Muslims - the people of Islam - are commanded to befriend Jews and Christians in order to deceive and subsequently conquer them.  They are commanded to put up a facade to trick us into complacency and then plant a knife in our backs.  I suggest you read the Koran (again, if you're going to claim you already have) and browse through the hadith and see what Muhammad actually thought of anyone who disagreed with him.

Where Jesus wished forgiveness on any who betrayed Him, Muhammad offered rewards for their murder.  Where God does not change, Allah changes frequently, whenever the need suited Muhammad's wants (further study on my part has led me to the belief that everything Muhammad experienced was itself a farce designed to lure the simpleminded into his service, as the early years of the religion are completely constructed around giving Muhammad his every desire) and there are contradictory verses in the Koran, which is explained in the 2nd surah as Allah's "better" instructions that supersede that which has come before.

Islam is not trustworthy, and by extension, I do not trust Muslims.  That said, there are obviously Muslims out there who do not adhere to the vitriolic hatred taught by Muhammad.  Until such time as they show themselves to be trustworthy, taking into account the fact that they are commanded to lie and appear trustworthy, I will not trust them.

If that lowers your opinion of me, well, you can go pound sand.

Permalink Reply by Jack Bauer on February 8, 2013 at 5:12pm

I'm no liberal.  But, labelling an entire category of people irrefutably 'untrustworthy' sight-unseen is pretty much prejudice defined.  Some prejudice may be justified, though most is certainly not.  You think yours is justified, fine by me ... but, at least own it.

 

JB

Permalink Reply by Stephen Washington on February 8, 2013 at 9:26pm

Most if not all definitions of prejudice include wording to the effect of opinions formed without knowledge, thought, or reason.

I think I've taken great pains to educate myself in order to come to a reasonable, informed opinion of Islam.  Now then, when we move from Islam to Muslims, it is something else, though not wholly removed.

I think the popular word of the day for what I have engaged in is profiling. 

Permalink Reply by Jack Bauer on February 8, 2013 at 9:42pm

You are forming opinions without knowledge.  You don't know this chick, yet you claim to know she's untrustworthy because of a blanket assumption absent any personal knowledge of her beliefs, her behavior, her history, her reliability, etc.  You don't know anything about her except she's pretty, and she's Muslim.  You don't even know how devout.

Its prejudice.  You believe it is justifiable ... but acknowledge it for what it is.  A justified prejudice, in your opinion.

I wouldn't date a Muslim ... but I wouldn't declare them untrustworthy sight-unseen.  I've known Muslims that have proven very trustworthy.

Profiling is roughly the same as prejudice, just typically mentioned in a law enforcement context.  Sometimes justified, often not.  Civilians don't typically "profile".

JB

Permalink Reply by LShieldes on February 8, 2013 at 11:50pm

Stephen, listen to Jack on this one, I know I can't agree with him any more

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• Next ›
• Page