Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve C on July 25, 2012 at 9:46am

I think, in general, any bigotry is condemned in the words "Love your enemies" (Mt 5:43) and "Love your neighbor as yourself." (Mt 22:39)  I mean actual bigotry, not being against sin that's often labelled as bigotry. Oftentimes, statements like "I think gays should not practice a homosexual lifestyle, and I think gay marriage is harmful to the persons involved and society at large" are labeled as bigotry, when it is clearly not. One of the basic things to remember is "hate the sin, love the sinner."

Permalink Reply by David F. on July 25, 2012 at 11:08am

Where in the new testament are homosexuals discussed?  

Is there a quote where Jesus outlines which of the old testament laws must be continued or discontinued?  It seems that many old testament laws are ignored yet some are favored  to promote enmity against some group or another.  This confuses me.    

Permalink Reply by Michael S on July 25, 2012 at 12:38pm

Since you're asking these questions of a Catholic group, let me correct you regarding the best way to learn what the Church teaches. If you are sincerely wondering about the position of the Church on an issue, and why it holds that position, your best starting point is the Catechism. Each statement and paragraph is extensively footnoted to help the reader understand why the Church teaches as it does on that point. For example, paragraph 2357 - regarding homosexuality - references both scriptural verses and documents from the magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church) to explain why we believe that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.

If you're looking to understand what most protestant groups teach, they will point you to the Bible and expect you to understand it in the same way they do. We, on the other hand, explain exactly what we believe, and then hand you the tools to understand why we teach that.

Permalink Reply by Rebekah on July 25, 2012 at 12:58pm

I don't think this is a fair presentation of Protestant pedagogy. Yes, a Protestant will always answer a question first from the Bible. Yes, some Protestants will put limits on acceptable materials and methods for interpreting the Bible. But this implies that Protestants won't explain what they believe or give tools to understand why. You have to compare apples to apples, well-catechized Catholics to well-catechized/discipled Protestants.

Also, if you're looking for the Catholic understanding of a particular Bible passage, which is a totally acceptable question to ask, you'll have to be willing to get into a Catholic mindset as surely as if doing the same thing with a Protestant.

Permalink Reply by David F. on July 25, 2012 at 2:49pm

Thanks for the link!

Permalink Reply by Steve C on July 25, 2012 at 12:45pm

I'm still not sure what you're trying to ask. Are you trying to ask about moral teachings on bigotry, or are you asking about moral teachings about controversial subjects, which is sometimes construed as propagating bigotry?

Permalink Reply by David F. on July 25, 2012 at 3:06pm

I think I am looking to understand the basis for views in the church.  The link you sent should help.  I'm trying to understand how some sins of the old testament are still sins and others are not.  How clothing sins are no longer sins and yet other actions are still sins.  Again the link will help.

I am a confirmed Roman Catholic from the V2 period.  But it has been many years since I was active in church and I am trying to get back and oriented.  The church mass has been altered from my memory and the politics of the church is a bit different.  Of course I am different now also.

Permalink Reply by Shane on July 25, 2012 at 3:17pm

 I'm trying to understand how some sins of the old testament are still sins and others are not.

 

General stupidity.

Permalink Reply by Jack Bauer on July 25, 2012 at 3:42pm

Mine is a layman's understanding -- there may be some that can explain it better.

 

The way I've heard it explained is that old testament law has three basic categories -- ceremonial laws, civil laws, and moral laws.  The short answer is that ceremonial and civil laws of the old testament are no longer binding, but that moral law remains.

 

As I understand it, Jewish rules of ceremony -- including sacrifice, cleanliness, clothes, food, etc. were fulfilled by Christ.  Same with civil laws, since we are not a theocracy and are under the laws of the secular government (thus stonings as punishment, etc. are no longer germane).  These laws are no longer binding because Christians get atonement, sacrifice, cleanliness, etc. through the blood of Christ.

 

My understanding is that rules of morality still stand, even though these laws were also fulfilled through Christ -- because what was pleasing to God then remains pleasing to God now.  Christ reiterated 9 of the 10 commandments (the Sabbath was the other, and is ceremonial).  What was morally wrong then remains morally wrong today.  Christ's crucifixion didn't change morality.

 

For what its worth, I am a Baptist, not a Catholic ... so that isn't a specifically Catholic answer.

 

JB

Permalink Reply by David F. on July 26, 2012 at 8:44am

That actually explains some things regarding the baptist views.  Thanks!

Permalink Reply by David F. on July 25, 2012 at 11:09am

To be clear, I know this sounds like I am trolling. I'm not I am trying to know where to find this information.  I figure people on this forum are better versed that I am.

  

I feel like if Jesus needed to die on a cross that would have been really easy in that time.  The hard part was teaching, but clearly a new message was needed because there was something off with the old message and laws.  Given this I'm trying to figure out the new testament stand on judging one's peers, acting against groups of another faith or view are discussed in the bible. 

Permalink Reply by Rebekah on July 25, 2012 at 12:10pm

Are you asking about the New Testament in general, or just what's in red letters in some, usually "Protestant," Bibles? That is, the New Testament, or just what the narratives say Jesus said?

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