Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Liam S. on November 27, 2012 at 11:44pm

Should they let the ladies fight? If yes, in what capacity?

 

Yes. In whatever capacity they are qualified physically and mentally to do so. If a woman passes the same standards for physical fitness, skills and such as a man in a similar role - I see no reason for her sex to be barrier to her service. 

 

With that said, I do not expect the roles, responsibilities and requirements to be modified (or not much anyway) to accommodate. E.g. if the requirement for an infantryman is to march 10 miles with a 50lb pack (hypothetical) - there should not be a separate standard for woman infantry. 

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Permalink Reply by David F. on November 28, 2012 at 10:17am

I totally agree with this.

I know of one lady at West Point who's nick name was Rucksack.  It's all you saw when she was running with her kit.  It was the same kit as everyone else.  

If the person can do the job physically and mentally then let them do it.  Be it militarily  fire, police, EMT, CEO, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Mike M. on November 28, 2012 at 3:44pm

That's not exactly possible.  Military physical fitness standards don't measure you're full physical abilities... they use a couple of tests that are supposed to be representative of your overall strength and stamina.  I'm not exactly a fitness machine... I go to the gym approximately never... and yet I can do more pushups than a lot of very fit women because I have a male frame.

Women in the military currently don't have to do nearly as many pushups as men do to pass their PT tests, because the number of pushups you can do is irrelevant except as a gauge for your broader fitness level.  A woman who can do as many pushups as I can could probably kick my ass.

It's not so easy to compare men and women that way.

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Permalink Reply by Rebekah on November 28, 2012 at 3:52pm

Not to mention one can imagine situations where women's general smaller frames and greater flexibility would be a tactical advantage. There's also issues of brain structure regarding multi-tasking, the ability to learn languages, and likely stuff about sleep deprivation, pain tolerance, etc.

Of course, if the military is going to consider being short and flexible a tactical advantage, that involves a re-thinking of the traditional ideal of uniformity for soldiers. But, again, maybe modern combat suggests we should be open to that.

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Permalink Reply by Shane on November 28, 2012 at 4:11pm

Tunnel rats.  Snipers. Tankers.  Submariners.

Those aren't Direct Action units though.

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Permalink Reply by Shane on November 28, 2012 at 4:10pm

It's not a comparison.  It's a base standard everyone begins with.  Minimum requirements are minimum requirements.  There shouldn't be gender norming for requirements.

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Permalink Reply by Mike M. on November 28, 2012 at 4:52pm

The standards are different... very, very different.  A man in his 20s (22-26) has to do a minimum of 40 pushups to pass.  A woman the same age has to do 17.  The situp standards, on the other hand, are identical for each gender.

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Permalink Reply by Shane on November 28, 2012 at 5:10pm

No s hit. I'm saying raise the standards. Gender norming places equality on outcome. Gender neutral places equality on opportunity. Make everyone's minimum standards the same. That way everyone has the same starting line.

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Permalink Reply by Mike M. on November 28, 2012 at 5:22pm

If the goal is to ensure that people from each sex are equally physically capable of performing the job, having uniform pushup standards doesn't do that. 

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Permalink Reply by Shane on November 28, 2012 at 5:46pm

But, telling girls they don't even need to do half as many pushups as men somehow makes them capable of trying out?

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Permalink Reply by Mike M. on November 28, 2012 at 5:53pm

That was my point.  It's not so easy to measure men and women the same way.  They're not the same.

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Permalink Reply by Shane on November 28, 2012 at 5:55pm

So, you think there is some over arching reason a healthy, physically fit female in her 20's is incapable of performing 40 pushups (or in my case 3 pullups) other than she's never been told she must, and therefore never trains for it?

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