To move out or not to move out?
I come to you all seeking wisdom and advice (to supplement that which I've already received). Let me tell you a little about myself. I'm 21 and I'm living at home. I have a great relationship with my parents, but I feel like it's time to leave the nest.
I'm currently a junior in college with two part-time jobs that I spend about 20 hours a week at. Because I have no real living expenses, I'm able to save most of this money and spend it on things such as foreign travel, going to various places and events with my friends, and on others. I have very little material needs, and I'm fine with using stuff that's not the latest and greatest. I'm not spoiled or anything, but I've been blessed with a comfortable life.
Yet, I've realized lately that if I increase my work hours to 30 a week, I could rent a place with a friend. I would be able to make about $1400 a month (before taxes) and would have less than $1000 a month of basic living expenses, which include rent, utilities, food, internet, cellphone and transportation. It wouldn't be comfortable, as I would have work more, spend time running errands I haven't had to do before, and get everywhere by bus or walking, but I would have a place of my own!
This would put a lot more stress on me for the next year and a half (until I graduate), but I really don't feel like a man in my present state. I know manliness is more about the abstracts of responsibility and self-control than simply having a job and a place and living within your means, but I also feel that living under the provision of others is a trait of boyhood. Also, I can't imagine that women are truly attracted to guys that still live with their parents, even if they are young and in college. Basically, my main reason for leaving home is to exercise my masculine spirit of independence sooner rather than later.
Am I totally off-base? Should I tough it out and embark on this new adventure? Or should I relish these days of being able to spend the fruits of my labor on the finer things rather than the basics? I'm torn.
I'm currently a junior in college with two part-time jobs that I spend about 20 hours a week at. Because I have no real living expenses, I'm able to save most of this money and spend it on things such as foreign travel, going to various places and events with my friends, and on others. I have very little material needs, and I'm fine with using stuff that's not the latest and greatest. I'm not spoiled or anything, but I've been blessed with a comfortable life.
Yet, I've realized lately that if I increase my work hours to 30 a week, I could rent a place with a friend. I would be able to make about $1400 a month (before taxes) and would have less than $1000 a month of basic living expenses, which include rent, utilities, food, internet, cellphone and transportation. It wouldn't be comfortable, as I would have work more, spend time running errands I haven't had to do before, and get everywhere by bus or walking, but I would have a place of my own!
This would put a lot more stress on me for the next year and a half (until I graduate), but I really don't feel like a man in my present state. I know manliness is more about the abstracts of responsibility and self-control than simply having a job and a place and living within your means, but I also feel that living under the provision of others is a trait of boyhood. Also, I can't imagine that women are truly attracted to guys that still live with their parents, even if they are young and in college. Basically, my main reason for leaving home is to exercise my masculine spirit of independence sooner rather than later.
Am I totally off-base? Should I tough it out and embark on this new adventure? Or should I relish these days of being able to spend the fruits of my labor on the finer things rather than the basics? I'm torn.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Hallock on -
You shouldn't feel guilty. Enjoy the umbrella of your parents' relative financial success while you're still a student. In a year, you will be permanently moved out—why rush to make that year particularly difficult without reason?
Part of being a 'man' is making decisions that are responsible, even if it contradicts your pride. Now is really not an ideal time to be moving out, particularly with part-time employment as your only means of sustenance. That kind of work can disappear quickly, or have hours reduced without warning, putting you in a painful financial circumstance.
What's another year really? Stay at home, be a student.
-
Permalink Reply by Zach Bacik on -
What you're saying is so true, but it's not really resonating with me. I don't want to call it my "pride" per-se, because I don't tend to associate pride with moving from splendor to frugality. But at the same time, you could say I'm doing it in pursuit of a self-esteem boost, which is pride's pathetic half-brother.
Honestly, I can't quite word why exactly I feel I should move out, but the push is strong.
-
Permalink Reply by John Clanton on -
You're asking for advice, but you're really looking for a justification to move out.
Zach, it's all up to you really. Moving out of the house was a great thing for me to do and I could never move back in, BUT my house wasn't near college. Moving out gets you great experience, you are closer to being an "adult" and all that stuff. You get the experience of living with a buddy and you'll have fun. I just think you should take advantage while you still can. If you move out, you HAVE to work 10 more hours a week. Those hours could be spent with college buddies doing college things, or could be spent studying.
Here's an idea. Start living frugally now and saving up, but still live at home. You'll have a nice savings built up, but still get the umbrella of living at home.
Truthfully, if you want to move out, do it. Things will be different, there's no guarantee of greatness or badness either. Keep us updated.
-
Permalink Reply by Zach Bacik on
-
You really know how to cut to the core of me John. You're so wise, like a miniature Buddha, covered in hair.
All the steam to move out that I had this morning seems to be dissipating. Now it seems like a completely impractical thing to do. Yet, it would still be a great learning experience. I suppose it's a good thing I have a few more months to sleep on it. Thanks for your advice! I'll keep you updated with my fickleness as I undoubtedly change my mind upwards of eight dozen times in the coming months.
-
Permalink Reply by Gregory Throne on -
Zach--
First. Stay at home. You won't need more stress during your junior and senior years. Second. Save the fruits of your labors. A cash cushion is nice. Also, don't forget there generally are deposits required for apartments, electricity, water, heat, etc., etc., etc., so your initial living expenses will easily exceed your $1000.00/month estimate (which incidentally is exceedingly low...unless you really, really like Ramen)
-
Permalink Reply by Zach Bacik on
-
Very true. You're just piling on reasons for me to stay put.
Let me address the cash aspect. Firstly, I have plenty in my savings to cover the upfront costs of moving out. I can make the deposits and buy all the furniture and spices and other things necessary. Secondly, I could legitimately do this on around $800 a month for the basics. Though it's looking like this isn't going to happen anyway, let me break it down how it could:
(The following would be my monthly share of a place for two.)
-two-bedroom apartment in Lynnwood, WA: $400
-utilities: $100
-renter's insurance: $10
-internet: $25
-cellphone (line on parent's family plan): $25
-food (consisting of mostly whole ingredients) and toiletries: $200
-bus pass (school's discounted rate): $20
Total: $780
Like I said, this is just the basics. Incidentals would gouge into the remaining $400-600 I could accumulate each month. Even if I went out to eat at a local restaurant once a week, went drinking with my friends once a week, saw a movie twice a month, and paid for Netflix, that would only be another $150 (with how I do it). I'd still have a couple hundred in reserve to pay for surprises or to save.
Once again, not trying to justify it. I'm just saying it's more about time and less about money, and what I need to weigh is whether or not having my own place is worth seeing my friends less.
-
Permalink Reply by Will on -
"Basically, my main reason for leaving home is to exercise my masculine spirit of independence sooner rather than later."
It's hard to argue with that sentiment. Go for it!
Or, if you want to stay and save money, go for that instead. But make no mistake: you *are* delaying being independent, delaying being (more) attractive to women. It may be worth it, depending on your real-world job prospects.
Or -- although you didn't ask -- what if you were to stay home and quit one of the jobs? And spend the extra time getting every last bit out of college that you can.
-
Permalink Reply by Zach Bacik on
-
What do you mean by job prospects? Are you talking about now or after I graduate college and begin my career?
Now, my work is solid. One job is at an office, and I am the young guy that knows how to do Photoshop. I've tried a million times to teach other people there, but they can't seem to get it. Therefore, my presence is necessary. My other job is at REI. We've downsized to the smallest we want to be, and I'm one of three out of the 15 that were hired last September that are still around (meaning they like my job performance). I couldn't work here full-time, but I can reliably get 16-20 hours a week minimum.
In the future, I'm going to be a police officer. After I finish my degree in Society, Ethics and Human Behavior in the fall quarter of 2010, I will take the police exam in January and begin academy training. Around here, many cities are looking to expand their departments in the coming years, meaning I have ample options for a good-paying, steady job. I have no doubts that I, a physically fit individual with all the personality traits they're looking for (patience, service-oriented, good judgement) and a bachelor's degree from the UW will have any problem gaining employment.
-
Permalink Reply by Kate McKay on -
Well, obviously I can't speak to the "masculine spirit of independence," but I say stick it out with the rents. I think a lot of the pressure to move out springs not so much from our inner desires but from cultural pressure that says it lame to live with your parents. But the ideal of everybody having their own place as soon as possible is really a Western one, and more so an American one. In a lot of the world, maybe most, the norm is for multiple generations to live under one roof. Men in Italy live with their Italian mamas into their 30's.
Here in America we tend to frown on men living with their rents past age 20 or so, but I think there's a big difference in the stereotype that that criticism springs from-the guy living in the basement, unemployed and jamming out and smoking pot-and the guy who lives there to save money and is actively moving ahead in life. You fall into the latter category and I say enjoy it while it lasts. You'll have 50+ years to pay rent and a mortgage.
-
Permalink Reply by Joseph L. Rogers on -
And she's one of those GURLS you were worried about not being impressed...and GURLS make the world go round, mah friend.
]Stay with the 'rents. Economically, and financially, this country is in a a downturn. You want to "Suck the marrow out of life" and I say that's great...but trust me. I'm 31, with a wife and three boys in my house. I didn't get to finish college, and went back about two years ago, half time. This last semester I took is going to be my last for awhile, as my financial obligations are coming to the forefront very quickly. My wife's worked very hard to help out while I was in school, but I can no longer delay my return to the workforce.
I truly wish I'd had a better relationship with my parents, and had been stable enough in my younger years to work on going to school THEN. I'm now behind the 8 ball as a result of my actions, and believe me...it is frustrating in the extreme when I look back at the decisions I made. I'm currently trying to move into a house, and not having a chunk of change in the bank REALLY hurts.
Man up, and get through school. Save your money, and begin preparing for your future. Financial advisors will tell you that the more you put into various methods of saving NOW, the better and more comfortable you'll be when you retire.
Myself, I've got about 4-5 years, then I'm going to have to begin socking back 45k a year (at a modest 4%) in order to reach my goals by the time my wife and I retire. Do you have ANY idea how difficult that is going to be? That's on top of the 1k a month I spend on medical insurance, doctor bills, and scrips.
Stay with the rents. Life will get difficult enough, all too quickly.
-
Permalink Reply by Brett McKay on -
I agree with my wife. Stay with the rents. The idea that you have to move out when you're 18, is a pretty modern conception. Even in the early days of the U.S., men lived with their parents well into their twenties and even after they had kids. They'd save their money until they had enough to strike out on their own.
Stay with your 'rents and finish school. You'll make your life much easier that way.
-
Permalink Reply by Ross Mc on -
Personally, I would find working 2 jobs and trying to study far too hectic to even contemplate moving out. Having the parents around to help you out with things like cooking dinner, laundry, etc. means you can properly devote time to your studies - household chores might not seem much, but they add up, especially if you share a house with a couple of guys!
When I moved out, I found that my initial budget was way off, too. There will always be unexpected expenses and, if you're on a tight budget, they can be crippling. Also be aware that no job is 100% safe in the current climate.
Stay at home, save your pennies, and when you graduate you'll be able to afford a much nicer batchelor pad that guarantees to impress the ladies :-) And, if a girl is only interested in you because of where you live, is she really that much of a catch?
Subscribe to the Art of Manliness Blog
AoM T-shirts
© 2009 Created by Brett McKay
