Hello Guys

My name is Adam and this is my first post here.

First a little background.

I fell in love with a beautiful woman about 6 years ago and eventually my feelings were reciprocated, i was/am the luckiest man alive. I used to work for a well known banking firm (only a call centre agent helping with bank accounts and transfers) and everything was going strong. My long term partner (i refer to her as my wife because she may as well be) fell pregnant (planned) and a few weeks later i lost my job (it was an agency thing so not overly stable) and she left me. For 9 months we went through hell, but eventually 2 weeks after my son was born we got back together and everything was fine again. Then she fell pregnant with my daughter (unplanned but wanted) and everything went downhill again, we started fighting a LOT and sleeping in seperate beds/rooms. This time i was at the birth and i felt so in love with my wife, son and daughter that i could have cried (in fact i did cry). However once again things took a turn for the worst, and everything went down, we would fight over every silly thing, and her expectations of me as a human being were becoming more and more unreasonable (for instance, she gets angry when i take off my socks and fluff gets on the floor, but if i pick up the fluff she says my hands are filthy ((even though as a guitarist they are washed enough to take the skin off)) yet she spot cleans the bathroom floor with toilet roll and spit and clogs the toilet expecting me to fish it out). We barely ever have sex, and even then (it always has been) stiff and cold (save for rare occasions after a drink... and i mean RARE). We spend very little time together, but because of the atmosphere and treading on eggshells the last thing i want to do is go to dinner with her and the kids to the same place we always go... which then causes an arguement, and if it's not that then something else will come along.

I'm sorry for the long post but it is needed to inform the outcome.

A few days ago, i was added on skype by a girl i have never met who wanted a song of mine (a friend had circulated a couple and had apparently sent out my contact details), eventually after talking, we started flirting with each other. Quite dodgy stuff was said, and she flirtingly said "you cant go anywhere till you say you love me" and i said it back, with no sincerity only flirty.

After the conversation i felt really guilty about it so i cleared my cache out on my pc and just wanted to sweep it away, however i didn't count on the android app not being cleared, so after she asked for my phone to use as an alarm... she saw everything easily.

She is rightly hurting, and i can't believe i could hurt someone i cared for (even after the ups and downs) so much. It has exacerbated her insecurities about herself, and her trust in me has been shaken to the core. She is cycling through anger and sadness almost constantly, and so close to christmas has just made everything worse.

My additional concern here though, (including the above) is that, she was warey of going to counseling before and now she is flat out refusing. blaming me for everything, which is understandable but i wish for our relationship, our world to stop being fractured and be healed, but it needs both our work right? or is it only me that needs to sort stuff out? will she ever forgive me? can i be forgiven? can anyone shed any light on it? i cant stand to hear my children being told that i'm a prick but i cant explain my side (not that i have the right to) to defend myself, especially to my son, (because he's older)

Tags: Cheating, Forgiveness

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Just to clarify, i dont drink or take drugs, I'm in university studying forensic computing and information security. im home with my children EVERY day, and that's not an understatement. at least one child comes with me to visit friends in devon.

While I don't have children I do empathise with how you feel, I would imagine they change things greatly. I have myself been engaged to a woman and trying for a baby, despite the fact that she couldn't have one(due to drug abuse). Since then we've split up and I've come to realize that her behaviour was totally and utterly unacceptable. Most of us guys are socialized to "take it on the chin" when it comes to protecting our families, but what you have to ask yourself is what comes next?. To give you an example from HER perspective and what you've said about how she treated you when pregnant... she's had her kids, your required now to pay child support no matter what you do.I'm assuming you have a house together and she is withholding sex, most likely blaming her moods or you as a reason. She ditched you the second she figured you couldn't support her, rather than try to work things out. She then went through your phone, which was an invasion of your privacy(a fact you've totally ignored) AND then blamed you for flirting with someone else after everything she's put you through!!!. To be completely honest she sounds like a selfish cow to me, at least from what you've said and I'm not trying to be harsh here.

I can guess what you DON'T want to happen namely end up being usurped by some other bloke she's managed to collar and have your kids lives dragged through the mud in the process but I'm going to be completely honest here...if the shoe was on the other foot I think she'd dump your ass in a heartbeat and blame you for it all. In your position I'd be asking myself if I could live with someone who was likely to be waiting for the right guy to come along to replace me and using me in the meantime to get what she wants. In your shoes I'd move on, start making plans to move out and sort all that stuff out first, rather than just bed hop. What she's been doing sounds like its been going on for quiet a long time...she's not the sort to change and I'm sorry to say that.

The usual advice is to go to a marriage counselor.  If she wont go, go alone.

I think its sound.

good luck.

Sorry if i'm intruding by going on about this but I had a similar experience and you post really annoyed me. As I said so If you don't want to listen to me fine...but listen to yourself, these are your words...(mine are in brackets alongside)

"I fell in love with a beautiful woman about 6 years ago and eventually my feelings were reciprocated"...[eventually??]

"For 9 months we went through hell, but eventually 2 weeks after my son was born we got back together and everything was fine again"...[you didn't get to be there while she was pregnant?? or even see your son born!....F.U.C.K!!!...why was this?]

"This time i was at the birth"...[This time??!!!]

"she gets angry when i take off my socks [socks!!!] and fluff gets on the floor, but if i pick up the fluff she says my hands are filthy"...[my response would be "go fuck yourself" to any woman/child who said that to me]

"She is cycling through anger and sadness almost constantly"...[your fault how? - i bet she even calls it "depression"]

"blaming me for everything...is it only me that needs to sort stuff out? will she ever forgive me? can i be forgiven?"...[your the victim not her!!]

"i cant stand to hear my children being told that i'm a prick [really?...do I need to explain this?!] but i cant explain my side (not that i have the right to) to defend myself"...[everyone has the right to, Christ even my dog has that right]

     You may not know what to say to her mate, I certainly didn't to my X-Fiance, even when she was waving a knife in my face, pretending to faint, lying about guys grabbing her in tesco, lying about being pregnant, jesus she even lied about being assaulted. Do yourself a favour and take stock....seriously and don't do it when she's there to manipulate you.

Since there are children involved, you need counseling.

Between you and her though, you really really need to grow a backbone. You've dug yourself a hole and she is in absolute control. You flirted with a fan of yours over skype. So what? Sounds like good PR to me, and nothing else. If there isn't anything else there, tell her that. If she doesn't want to believe you, then what else can you do? Look back on the things she has done to you.

Start with yourself. Be a man with a little bit of authority, and let it be known that you're trustworthy and are a man of your word. If you get caught up in something like this, let her know that you acknowledge now that this hurt her now that she saw it, but be damn sure she understands that you will not tolerate her invading your personal information as that's obviously spawned from trust issues.

Be a strong, stern, respectable man for your kids to look up to. That could also be what she needs. If it's not, that's her issue to resolve. Do it for the children. Get your shit together.

To me it sounds as though neither one of you want to be in this marriage.  She sabotages the marriage through her constant bitching and you through your actions although you didn't follow through, or did you because I didn't see that in your post.

Counseling either both or yourself, if she won't go and continues to blame you for everything, which you are only half the problem, then there's no real need for counseling but counselors (lawyers).  It has been said that it takes two to raise children but for those children to understand what marriage is really about both the parents need to want to be in the marriage and work on working things out.  Failing that the only reasonable recourse is divorce or separation; and if you've been together more than two years and have been calling her your wife in public then she is your Common Law wife (check the state laws on that) and a divorce could be necessary.  BUT once you're divorced you need to be on the same page as far as the children are concerned, not one-upping, or Disney Dadding/Momming with the kids (that's when you give them whatever they want and take them on trips all the time and basically there are no rules, which is bad, bad bad for the kids).  You'll both need to be in their lives 100% all the time.

Many men don't have a say in pregnancy as the only forms of contraception are ineffective long term(condoms) or permanent and scarring(vasectomy). I've known many women who used pregnancy as a way to keep a guy, threaten him or use him because the state will provide either way. Frankly when a guy doesn't get to see his own son born I think the damage is done permanently, which is sad for the children, but most definitely the fault of the woman - NOT the man. We've grown up in a society that has become totally brainwashed into devaluing and blaming men, until women shoulder equal responsibility and obligation, for finances AND child rearing we won't have families, we'll just have legal battles. If this was a Woman asking this question, there would be total outrage over any one of the points Adam made.

Thanks, I played around trying to fix it but it wasn't happening.

     However I don't think that Adam would feel the birth of his children was something he "allowed to happen to him"  - that is simply another assumption that its the man's fault. In regards to myself I, like most men think that placating a woman who clearly appears to be self centred and abusive should receive the same response from society that a man would had Adam been telling his children their mother was a prick, shouting at her for taking her socks of wrongly and refusing to let her see her new born baby... isn't that awful enough? - or should I start talking about the "mother" who let her 9 month old child be physically beaten to death in 2008 or the lesbian who shook her child to death this year, neither of whom faced any punishment whatsoever...but I am getting off topic so I will just say that the law needs to change in regards to men long before Marriage and Family mean anything close to what they used to...I  hope as Adam seems to think that the children are what matter, how he decides to deal with that is entirely up to him.

Easy for me to say but I'd cut my losses.

My wife and I were going though some troubling times after I told her I have been looking at online porn.  We got a book called "Love and Respect"  We read it in bed at night after putting our little ones to bed.  It has changed our marriage.  The concept is pretty simple yet few people I know get it.  You can read it yourself but It has changed my life.  http://loveandrespect.com

Another thing that can be done it open a Bible and start reading.  No particular page, just open and read.  

Wow.  Okay...you're asking for advice, so I'm going to give you mine---it's free:

1. Stop calling her your wife.  You're not married, and half the trouble---no, scratch that---TWO THIRDS of the trouble here is that you've got the roof built before even laying the foundation.  You're living with a woman you're not married to, have had CHILDREN by her---but both of you have left the back door unlocked.  Talk about putting the cart before the horse---you've got things so convoluted and backwards here that it's bizarre.  Who told you that marriage didn't matter?  Who told you that having kids without a committed spouse (in a home that was READY for children) was a responsible thing to do?  Somewhere down the line, you've been getting a lot of misinformation--it's time to open your eyes and re-examine your choices.

2. You said twice that "fell pregnant"--the second one "uplanned but wanted".  Okay---so you've got kids now.  That means growing up VERY fast and realizing that it's not about you anymore.  If she is ripping you to your kids, then she needs to learn this, too.  Kids deserve to be raised by stable parents, in a stable home---not in some emotional roller coaster by two adults playing house.  It's up to the two of you to provide that---and in THIS case (unfortunately), that's going to mean taking a couple of steps backwards and undoing some things so you can get it right.  Think of it as tearing out construction work that needs to be redone.

3. Move out.  ASAP.  You are being led around by your girlfriend's whims and emotions---what makes her angry, what she gets in a snit about---and there has been no commitment on EITHER of your parts.  Do I really need to tell you that you don't Skype with a woman you're not married to and engage in flirting?  Do I really need to tell you that when two people are committed to one another and to building a home and a life for themselves (and their children), then the don't "break up" just because someone has lost his job?  You need to get out of this situation--NOW--and take the lead by declaring that you're willing to make it a home and a family by doing things right (for a change).  That means going to counselling (without her, if necessary).  That means winning her heart and her trust.  That means working out the details of how your life together is going to be.

4. Will she forgive you?  Well let me ask you a sincere question---does she really want you to begin with, or is she just looking for an excuse to end things?  I know that that is a painful question to contemplate, but it's one you've got to deal with.

5. Bottom line---if the two of you cannot patch this up and make a home out of it, then you need to pay child support and make arrangements to be there to parent your children.  The situation will never be ideal under those circumstances, but it's not ideal now, either.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm excoriating you---I don't mean for it to come off as harshly as it may have sounded--but Bud, again, it's NOT all about YOU guys---you've got kids in the middle of this mess---and their whole concept of a marriage, family, and home depends on you straightening this out.  1. Stop pretending this is marriage, 2. Move out--not to ABANDON but to REBUILD, and 3. Run---do not walk---to a counsellor who can help you work through all of this.  I would recommend a faith-based counsellor so as to avoid some trendy, lib-tard idiot who's going to help you dig the hold deeper.

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