Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sam Williams on September 28, 2012 at 11:18am

Somehow ribbing me for my extraordinary coarse and curly hair became a more and more frequent occurance within the group of friends I had in my mid to late teens. I'm 5' 8", and with a lean build was definately on the smaller side of this group. While I could take good natured ribbing and frequently responded in kind, this particular subject eventually got on my nerves. Once I realized they weren't going to stop, I warned them twice, in a very calm manner, that I was tired of it and would start slugging them if they continued. They didn't stop, so I started delivering a moderate punch to the offender. It only took two punches before they decided it wasn't worth it.

A similar situation came up with one of those same dudes a few years later in my early 20's. Played out the same way, except I ended up delivering a glancing blow to his head in the middle of Applebee's. No further problems.

Fifteen years later, several of these guys are still good and respected friends of mine, including those I had to deck back in the day. These guys are quality dudes who went a bit overboard with thier kidding. I'm respected in this group for my gentleness, but a consequence of my natural strength in that area is that it was necessary to prove my backbone every so often.

 

If you don't respect these guys, then ditch them. If they are good guys who just need to learn to respect your boundries, then find a masculine way to deal with the issue. I would have lost life-long friends had I removed myself from this group when it became uncomfortable for me, and that's why I bring this perspective to you.

BTW, as a short dude, I'm assuming you've run into these kinds of disrespect before. Being short invites it. :-D A quiet confidence helps, and a willingness to get into scrapes if needed helps as well. Sure you might get beat up in a fight, but have the attitude that it's going to cost whoever it is that wants to throw down with you. If this guy is picking up on the fact that you WON'T defend yourself, then you're hard to respect.

 

I hope you are able to clearly percieve yourself and this group of guys, and that dealing with this issue adds to your personal integrity and strength. If you handle this correctly, you WILL be a stronger, deeper man. Plus, since your sons will also likely be short, you'll have wisdom to pass down to them.

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Knight on September 28, 2012 at 11:42am

There is one other aspect which no one else has mentioned.  You said this is happening because of one, single, individual in your group.

 

All the other suggestions assume that he must stay, and you must go.  Turn that around.  He's probably making the whole group miserable...expel *him* from the group.  If it's as bad as you describe, I *promise* you that you're not the only one who is tired of his shenanigans.

 

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on September 28, 2012 at 11:48am

I think sometmies people have a certain "sense of humor" they dont realize is rude obnoxious or hurtful to others. Before anyone is expeled from the group maybe try to give them a chance to tone down the negative behavior but if it doesnt stop by all means get rid of him.

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Permalink Reply by Craig on September 28, 2012 at 12:24pm

Maybe I'll take another possible angle on this.

You're the weakest member of the gang. The weakest member contributes the least and thus gets punished verbally for it. Everybody else will use this punishment as a way to maintain or heighten their level within the gang. You do offer something to the gang or you'd be expelled.

I'd suggest you either assert yourself more and contribute more for the gang or leave and find a new one. I suggest the former. Don't be timid. 

I run a soccer team and a couple of the weaker players take more verbal ribbing than others. They are the teams weakest players but they do offer loyalty and dedication which is why they are still around. My advice for them would be to improve their game.

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Knight on September 28, 2012 at 1:26pm

A very good point.

 

I, too, am short...and I'm also fat.  Throw in polite, and sensitive, too.  Not exactly the alpha male, as most would describe one.  Yet I do not have to put up with crap like this.  I don't tolerate it, and that is clear to everyone around me.  In fact, even in most new environments, with unfamiliar people, if someone crosses me they instinctively apologize and defer to me.  I was told that it's a "vibe" that some people put off.

 

Physical stature has nothing to do with position in a group, though it *can* be used as leverage, if it's needed.  Physical "attitude," body language if you wish, is far more important.

 
It's obvious you defer to these other members of your group, and place *yourself* in an inferior position.  It's probably subconscious, on your part, and maybe even on theirs...but it's self-reinforcing.

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Permalink Reply by Carl Monster on September 28, 2012 at 1:03pm

So this guy who already towers over you gets his rocks off regularly humiliating you, and the group lets it happen?

Then they dictate who you can and can't hang with?

Sounds like they have some major insecurities going on with their own sense of worth, and it's at a group level. 

I would leave the situation and not look behind; you deserve to hang with better people.

"Surround yourself with the men you want to be." was in a post here on connecting with men, and I hope the person who wrote it doesn't mind me borrowing it to use here.

Do you want to be a bully? Do you want to have power over the weak? If that's what you want, go and fight your way up that miserable food chain. Otherwise find other people who will enrich your life, not take away from it.

Life is too short for anything else.

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Permalink Reply by Arthur on September 29, 2012 at 4:39am

There is Ball-breaking among buddies and there is being and asshole and this guy sounds like the latter. The joking with friends still needs to be within bounds. You need to learn about Boundaries, and from the tone of your post, I am making an assumption, but you might benefit from reading No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Glover. 

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Permalink Reply by Dale K on September 30, 2012 at 8:42pm

Interesting quote in a book I read recently (in regards to a somewhat different subject). The author pointed out: "As long as you think you can control people's behavior towards you - you are held in bondage by their opinion."

Another way I have personally found to handle any issue like this is in the area of "Stress Management". And it goes like this: 'People who are stressed out will naturallly blame their circumstances for their distress.' Professionals will tell you - it is NOT the circumstances that stresses you! It is your REACTION to those circumstances.

Let's put it like this? The other guys are right in their comments. You can find a better group of friends to hang with. But before you ride off into the sunset, try this? Tell yourself that you have been giving this guy "permission" to insult you - and to get under your skin. And as of today - that is over. He can say anything he wants; and you have the freedom to ignore it. Like one guy said - when they (or HE) realizes that the fun is over, they'll generally find another victim.

You don't have to be a victim. Do something.

At 24 you're young enough to make mistakes in human relations; AND... you're old enough to do something positive about it. (Just not on Facebook) Good luck!

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Permalink Reply by Michael on October 1, 2012 at 12:48am

Appropriate amount of ribbing is expected among a group of male friends.  However any group of decent male friends knows what the appropriate level is.

Somehow you've allowed yourself to become the Omega, or more likely they are just all around turds whose fathers weren't good role models and didn't interact with them properly.

If you really want to keep them as 'friends', I guess you gotta pick one of them to beat up in front of the group and establish yourself as Alpha AND not let your new found authority corrupt you like them.  But since that is not an option you probably better find decent people to hang out with.

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Permalink Reply by Rob on October 2, 2012 at 1:06am

Bobby, and a few others who have mentioned being bullied or excessively "ribbed": I saw this thread yesterday--when looking for advice regarding shoes!--and thought that I would reply, but first I had to get an account. It's just been approved.

It just so happens that I've been studying this problem for a while, as a topic of interest for my upcoming personal coaching business.

There are a number of things going on here. First: rank in a group. Groups tend to form around the common values that define the group. Rank in the group tends to be a function of who has the most of the common value. For example, in a high school clique revolving around physical attractiveness, you might find the "football hero" and a particularly pretty girl to be the highest-ranking members.

In a group of geeks, it might be the smartest kid of the pack. In your motorcycle group, it might be who's a skilled rider, who has a nice bike, who plays the role well, etc.

Nobody is perfect. Even the alphas have dirty little secrets they'd rather not disclose. What bullies in particular do to cover up their own faults is to make someone else look bad, to distract attention away from themselves (they've usually got plenty to hide!). It might be by criticizing and pointing out faults. It might be by sheer ridicule. It might be by physical intimidation. One way or another, they're out to make their victims look "bad" in some way.

In order to be successful, the bully needs to alienate the victim from the rest of the group, as much as possible. Now, look what you already said about that: "I have steadily avoided going to their weekly hangout now for a month. Also they give me crap when I hang out with people they don't seem to like, like I'm some sort of traitor or something. I feel more and more isolated,..."

Unfortunately, once you've been isolated, it's hard to reverse course, though in fact it is possible if you want to salvage this.

You also said: "I seem to have blown up on him on Facebook and don't know if I'm being immature about this or it was the right thing to do. "

Buddy, every time you react with negative emotions to something he says or does, you're giving him feedback regarding how to push your buttons. This was one of the hardest life lessons for me to learn myself. You want to tell people how they are bothering you and what you expect from them, but it backfires because you're actually just cluing them in regarding how to get your goat.

Getting angry easily broadcasts to other people that you need the adrenaline to handle the situation--because you couldn't otherwise. It actually advertises WEAKNESS not strength.

Ever seen a tough-detective movie? Starring someone like Sean Connery? Or some other hard-boiled type? He's not highly reactive to whatever someone else says or does. He might throw a punch if physically attacked, but otherwise, his feathers don't ruffle easily. That's the mark of someone with powerful emotional control and mental toughness.

Contrast with a character actor who plays a neurotic--someone like Woody Allen. Talks too much, nervously, explains too much, seeks approval, stammers, laughs nervously...

Several other respondants have suggested moving on. I leave it up to you, but with the warning that it sounds like you're already odd-man-out. You could turn around the situation, but it would take a different way of relating to other members of the group. You might want to bow out, at least temporarily, until you can change how you relate to other people. I suggest starting by working on your own self-esteem. Radically accept yourself AND OTHERS, and be happy without needing the approval of others. That doesn't mean to be a rebel-without-a-cause; by all means do put in effort relate well with others, but if things go wrong, you can still be happy without being needy for approval.

Great success to you!

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Permalink Reply by Wayne W. on December 18, 2012 at 2:05am

Hi Rob,

What an excellent well-considered post.  I am most impressed.  Well reasoned and communicated.

I bow to your abilities to discern the issue and address it intelligently and comprehensively.

Well done.

 

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Permalink Reply by Bobby B. on October 11, 2012 at 2:11pm

HUGE THANKS to everyone who took the time to give me a little advice. I REALLY appreciate it. There's a lot to take in but have read through it all and convinced the right decision was made. Have since talked to other folks in that group and let it be known I'm not taking any sh*t from anyone I don't deserve. And ya'll were spot on with things. It actually feels uplifting to stand up for myself...sometimes can be too nice. And maybe in the end the other folks will respect me more for it. I know it's going to mess up gatherings and they don't want to have us fighting or interacting and messing it up so I'm staying away. I've got other friends that that guy and some others in the group don't get along with, but those other folks are actually pretty badass. And they were very welcoming to me. Have got other friends I've been catching up with as well I didn't see as much. Just want to thank you all again for all the help! No more being a pushover.

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