"Would people buy books where I talk about my own existance?"
Founder of Scouts Gay?
So the discussion about the Boy Scouts of America and their policy excluding gays and atheists got me curious about the subject so I started googling. In particular, I wanted to see if Lord Baden-Powell, the founder of Scouts had anything to say about homosexuality. I remembered that he was big on sexual abstinence and decried the evils of "self-pollution," ie whacking off.
Well, was I surprised that my search results came up that Baden-Powell may have been a repressed homsexual himself and maybe even a pedophile. Two biographers have come to that conclusion, at least. Again, it's their interpretation and it's highly debated.
Some of the evidence they look to:
-Powell recorded his dreams in a diary and most of them were about young boys (this could be because he worked with boys all day, not because he was gay)
-Powell enjoyed watching naked boys swim and got upset when swimming naked was banned. He disdained female nudity.
when Powell was staying overnight at the school with his old friend A. H. Tod, who had been in the Rifle Corps and in the football 1st XI with him. In November 1919 Tod was over the retirement age but still teaching because it was wartime and all the younger staff had joined up. 'Stayed with Tod,' Stephe wrote in his diary. 'Tod's photos of naked boys and trees etc. Excellent.'. That a bachelor housemaster should have taken large numbers of nude photographs of his boys evidently did not strike Baden-Powell as undesirable. A few days later he wrote to Tod about starting a Scout troop at the school and added that he would soon be visiting Charterhouse again, 'which will give me the opportunity of seeing the football; and possibly I might get a further look at those wonderful photographs of yours!'
- He didn't marry until he was 55 years old. When he did, he married a 23 year old and had her change her looks so she looked more like a boy. She flattened her breasts, hid her cleavage with a neckerchief, cut her hair, and wore outfits that looked like boy scout uniforms. They had three kids, but descriptions of the Powell's relationship with his wife make it seem like there wasn't much romance there.
-Like alleged pedophile Michael Jackson, Baden-Powell loved Peter Pan. I don't think the love of Peter Pan makes a man a pedophile, but he definitely had some Peter Pan syndrom going on in that he seemed to relate better with boys rather than men his age. Which is sort of creepy when you're 55 years old.
Again, this is pretty speculative and historians will never be able to truly determine Baden-Powell's sexuality because most of his private correspondence were destroyed. Even if was gay or even a pedophile, there's no evidence that Baden-Powell acted out on his feelings. The man was obsessed with stifling sexual feelings and even counseled young men to go stick their wiener in cold water if they had the urge to masturbate. But again, we'll never know.
I don't really have a point with this. I just thought it was interesting.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric The Red on
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Brett,
It seems you have opened a can of worms with this thread. It is interesting to see the twists and turns that posters have made from bashing the RCC, Scouts, Baden Powells orientation and even each other.Looking back at the posts, a lot of air time was given to discussing whether or not BP was gay or not. Can I suggest that this discussion gets back on track to debate a real issue - not gutter sniping about sexual orientation based on unsubstantiated opinions. In the end his orientation has nothing to do with the debate - it does not matter!
I was interested in joining AOM because of the declining standards in men behaving like gentlemen, and to revive 'lost' manly pastimes and to have examples of what it is to be a man.
I am looking to you to get this debate back on track - if your intent was to discuss the appropriateness of a ban on homosexuals in BSA then please restate this as this is a more edifying topic.
Sincerely,
ETR
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Permalink Reply by Nick H on -
Eric. If there was a can of worms opened then I'm pretty sure they are all dead by now.
Brett wrote this discussion over 3 years ago. As for getting the topic "back on track", read his final line "I don't really have a point with this. I just thought it was interesting." I'm guessing 3 years ago that the BSA and the topic of homosexuality was in the news and Brett went and read a bit on Lord BP. He was probably not looking to dive deeper into it because, like the rest of us who dropped the topic after only a couple pages, didn't really bother to.
As for the comments about the RC church, that had nothing to do with the discussion. You cannot tell by reading now because the poster has since been booted from AOM (and therefore his posts are deleted with his account) but the anti-Catholic posts were written by a poster who had an axe to grind. Go back to page one and you will see that myself and others are responding to someone who isn't there. I forget what the poster said, but it was some random ranting about the RC church.
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Thanks for setting me straight Nick. Strange how this post got revived - though it did spark some entertaining comments.
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Permalink Reply by Nate Thallas on
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Hmmm... I may have a unique perspective on this, being proudly atheistic, bisexual (although i am engaged to the absolute love of my life, a mormon woman), AND an Eagle Scout. Although it is difficult for us to view Baden Powell's actions as they were, due to the passage of time, it does seem awfully suspicious that he essentially de-feminized his wife. Granted, i do tend to prefer short hair, but the breast compression and costuming seem to point to some variety of paraphilia. Regardless of his personal life, though, Baden Powell's organization has done immeasurable good for boys who participate in it, even if the organizational politics are bigoted, at best. Oh, and in reference to the catholic dilemna, being raised catholic and being excommunicated at 14, along with my entire family, has left me soured on the institution. That being said, the catholic church is by no means unique in having had problems with pederasty. It is perhaps due to the conspicuous size and power of the church that these aberrant clergymen are taken to represent the whole of the church, erroneously. The church has many more canonical problems which are perhaps more troubling, if not as well publicized.
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Permalink Reply by Larry on
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It IS interesting. However, Lord Baden-Powell, being deceased, is not able to answer the charges. As is stated in the article, (quote) "...there's no evidence that Baden-Powell acted out on his feelings," so let's give him the benefit of the doubt. A man who admires and enjoys looking at the nude male form is not necessarily a homosexual. Let's remember Lord Baden-Powell simply as the founder of Scouting.
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