Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rick Shelton on February 28, 2013 at 12:25pm

My take on this issue.

Not all your thoughts are important. There are many ways to skin a cat and your way may not be the best for a particular situation or person, they have their way and you have yours. All opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink. Your opinion is yours and has no bearing whatsoever on anyone else. Patronizing is not the best way to get your opinion or thoughts on anything across to someone else. Remember, there are as many people who are smarter than you as those who are dumber. Remember you do not need to think for others, that's what they have brains for. Just because you put "Don't you think" in front of a suggestion or opinion doesn't make it less offensive (actually it makes it more so). Never, never, never ask someone "Why didn't you do it this way?". Although it may not seem like it most people already know when to breath.

Permalink Reply by Rebekah on February 28, 2013 at 6:24pm

A tiny part of me would be interested in the gender breakdowns of these personality types.

My insight: They're intimidated by you. Not by your knowledge, skills - but by your style. While being assertive, outspoken, goal-oriented, and "above-it-all" are generally admired qualities in men, it's really hard for women to have those qualities and not be labeled a b*tch. Your interlocutrixes don't have a good way of responding to the tone you set. Just physically, if you start gesturing or raising your voice, they can't mirror you. In a woman, that behavior comes across as shrill and is ineffective.

What to do to make it easier? Keep your voice down. Throw out more "I think [it would be best to..." Phrase things as questions rather than judgments/conclusions. Smile.

Permalink Reply by Rebekah on February 28, 2013 at 9:19pm

Some women will be attracted to it. For others, it will be very off-putting. If you remember that your whole style is one women aren't conditioned to handle on an equal level, you'll realize that of course they reject mentoring with you. They don't like your style, and they intuitively or consciously understand they can't imitate it.

I'm curious as to why it concerns you that people don't like your demeanor in your personal life. You have a girlfriend, so it's not interfering with dating. Americans need to understand they don't need to be friends with everyone. If it's interfering with your relationships volunteering or in organizations, use the same strategies you do at work.

Permalink Reply by LShieldes on March 1, 2013 at 1:04pm

I can tell you right now what your problem is, I just don't think you will like to hear/read what I have to say.

Permalink Reply by Will on March 1, 2013 at 1:30pm

Wow!  If you have nothing in common with people who are lazy, party, make excuses, or are bad fathers or husbands -- you are a remarkable man and everyone would like to know you!

I suspect you have a lot more in common with the rest of us than that, and that people around you don't like to be rejected or judged, and that's why at least some of them drop away.

I'm also pretty sure that's where Shieldes was going.

Permalink Reply by LShieldes on March 1, 2013 at 3:06pm

This reply right here is the perfect summation of your problem. And all that anyone has to read is the first word of each paragraph.

Your ego doesn't allow you to see what is wrong. You started out shoving the silly little Myers Briggs assessment down our throats to the point that you had to copy and paste it up because we weren't discussig enough of YOUR ASPECTS of the thing. You wanted us to read it and see just who you are.

When someone questioned you to a point that you didn't like, you lashed out, then deleted it.

You talk about how you can find your own faults, but nobody cares about what you think your faults are. We care about what WE think your faults are. If you are only fixing your perception of your problem, you will never fix what actually is your problem. And if you only fix your problem and discount ours, the problem is still there.

While the Myers Briggs is but one of many personality tests out there, my biggest suggestion for you is to look into some of the many Narcissism tests out there.

The fact that many guys don't want to be friends with you, while some women do is also very telling to me. Women are attracted to a perception of power, of self power, self control, of firm grasp of things. So they will come to that. Deal is it becomes very different when it is other guys. Chances are, they are instantly reading through the bullshit. You call it prejudging, I call it intuition.

Permalink Reply by Jack Bauer on March 1, 2013 at 3:21pm

Yep.  Wouldn't expect a much better reply than I got, though.

JB

Permalink Reply by Jack Bauer on March 1, 2013 at 3:52pm

You're awfully sensitive for a guy who's asking advice on how to deal with sensitive people.  Maybe you should just treat them as you'd prefer to be treated by us -- gently.  You seem to have the same objections to us as you're complaining they have to you.  For instance ...

I would suggest that you and Jack take a Reading Comprehension course together and follow it up with a Communications course.  It is possible to communicate a differing opinion without sounding like you are personally attacking someone ...

Heh.  A personal attack and commentary on differing-in-opinion-without-personally-attacking in back-to-back sentences.  Irony defined.  Maybe you're not as good at that as you think.

and if you want to be taken seriously by adults, you two both need some work.

You're the one here asking advice for exactly that problem.  Our friends and colleagues already take us seriously, and don't think we're jerks.

Its difficult to believe you don't see the irony in your responses to Shieldes and me given the question you've asked.

JB

Permalink Reply by LShieldes on March 1, 2013 at 4:03pm

I couldn't find a better, more perfectly worded response to use for a text book example of narcissim if I researched the rest of my life. Did you make this up or is this an actual, natural response?

Permalink Reply by Will on March 1, 2013 at 8:15pm

I would suggest that you and Jack take a Reading Comprehension course together and follow it up with a Communications course ... if you want to be taken seriously by adults, you two both need some work.

I think we're getting a clear picture of why male friendships are not easy for you.  That and not having time for people who are inferior to you.  Sounds lonely.

Permalink Reply by Will on March 1, 2013 at 8:50pm

...and that's what you came here with, isn't it?  You say you know you're on a "high horse" and want advice "toning it down."

Here's one attempt.  Since the one common denominator in all your interactions is you... if you want to be in a harsh, judgmental, angry world, be harsh, or judgmental, or angry.  If you want to be in a world of blessing and respect, give it out.  Not because others will return it, although they may.  But because when you put it there, there it is.  Decide to accept the unworthy, even giving up the judgment that they're unworthy, and you'll be on your way.  It only makes sense that others will want to be in that respectful world with you... except those who want to scrap, who aren't so much fun anyway.

Another bit:  when a man feels vulnerable to criticism, it doesn't mean the criticism's valid, but it does mean he feels vulnerable.  As you accept your unpleasant parts including those parts you see reflected in others, that vulnerability should ease somewhat... and the parts you describe as arrogant, harsh, etc., will be less needed.  

At least so I've heard.  I've been working on this shadow for years.  But I can tell it's better than it was 11 years ago, even if it does still aggravate me.

Permalink Reply by Michael Buro on February 28, 2013 at 9:50pm

Ask someone to record you secretly so you can hear how you sound. That's helped me

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