This question occurred to me a couple of weeks ago when I was watching some type of travelogue program. Is there any form of dancing that is still considered manly? What I have witnessed on television programs that many popular dances are either simply clothed frottage (dry-humping) or are a high sexualized style of group dancing as exhibited in broadway musicals. What, then, is considered a manly form of dancing? Now, I had considered many forms of country dancing, such as line dancing, and the like, but I wasn't certain. What forms of dancing does anyone on this site consider manly?
I'd say fewer forms of dancing are unmanly than manly... As long as you don't start twerking or doing some other dumb teenager's or whore's dance moves, then the rule of thumb is that you are doing good. Women like a man who can dance. Nothing unmanly about doing something to impress the ladies.
Pretty much nailed it right here. Even Ballet requires tremendous strength, and body control - very manly things. If you find yourself questioning the manliness of a gentleman having a good time on the dancefloor with his woman, you might want to re-examine your definition of manly.
They can exhibit manly traits, or exemplify manly ideals, without being men.
I couldn't disagree more about ballet.
"Nothing can exemplify the ideal something without being that thing." - huh?
A very "butch" woman can very well be described as "manly" or as one who exhibits "manly" or perhaps "manish" traits, just as a man can exhibit those traits that we like to call "feminine."
More to your point, if a "manly ideal" is courage or say, physical strength, how is it inaccurate to say that an unusually courageous woman in a typically more masculine setting, say, exemplified a manly ideal? I don't think that is a stretch. Or to use another example, I could be an American and in some way "exemplify a Japanese ideal" without being Japanese. The issue isn't my nationality, it's the ideal, and who or what that ideal is typically associated with.
Sorry, Titus, I'm not a Platonist, so I don't share many of the presuppositions that you do. I don't buy the ideals/types/forms argument. Life has evolved and adapts over millenia. From whence did these perfect types or ideals or roots that make metaphors come? When did the perfect or ideal human (or human male in this case) emerge? Where does/did he exist? Or if he hasn't, where did that ideal come from that you seem to be insinuating is imprinted on our minds? From the gods of Mt. Olympus? I believe that most of these ideals that you speak of are socially constructed, and are not absolute as you seem to infer. My philosophical bias comes from the Judaic/Christian tradition and we certainly don't believe, for example, that "Manliness, therefore, is the form of all ideals, because manliness is about being a whole apart from anything & everything--think of manly aloofness." Maleness (and therefore manliness) was created by God and declared to be incomplete without the female counterpart. Only together did the man and woman in the garden fully reflect the image of God. God said, "It is not good for man to be alone..." even though Adam had perfect, unhindered fellowship with the Lord at that time. Therefore, according to my understanding, man is never "whole apart from anything and everything"; the Lord completes him, the woman (and other men) are his complements and companions. As Paul of Tarsus elaborated, "for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God." (I Cor. 11:12) We, humankind, are incomplete (and wouldn't even exist) without each other, males and females. We are designed to be interdependent. As the old saying goes, "No man is an island," and this is true in more ways than one. And indeed, many of the cultural characteristics that we deem "manly" in our society would not exist if they were not taught and exemplified to people like you and me by other men (and women, too; the opposite sex plays an important role in reinforcing gender roles) when we were young and learning our culture and its language (and language always structures our understanding of reality and how we categorize it to some extent), how to express emotions, how to act in different situations, taboos, understandings of God and the supernatural, etc. Men, in the social/cultural sense, don't exist naturally. They are made. And how they are made, and what the ideal of that image is, varies some from culture to culture. Sorry, but cultural anthropology has pretty much proved that fact, and it is independently verifiable by anyone who has travelled. We aren't speculating about ancient realities or origins of the cosmos or other things that can't be proven or tested out; we are talking about our present, multicultural reality--it clearly proves this to be true. Plato's "forms" don't exist in some ex nihilo or even self-evident state. They are cultural (and individual) ideals, subject to great change.
Methinks you should re-visit the definition of logical fallacies Titus.
Tango may have been performed by some whores, but that is not its origin. Nor does that reflect current use.
Yes. Cultural connotations and mores change. Something that once used to be used to entice men to a whores house (Italian Puttanesca sauce) is now served at gourmet restaurants. The previous meaning is now irrelevant, and a new meaning has replaced it. This happens all the time. Language, food, music, dance - their relative meanings change dramatically with time and place. Subversive rock and roll in the 60s is now today's "golden oldies" and classics - any subversive meaning is lost without the context of its time. This is true of much classical music and opera too - cultural critique, and new forms become old standards and lost meanings enjoyed on a different level now, than they used to be.
boom! I couldn't have put it any better, Liam
"The change wrought in popular music & the things which attend on it--like music videos or dancing--..."
Woah, there, cowboy -- dancing has ALWAYS been a part of popular music. Dancing to pop tunes was not an invention of the 1960s, sorry...
Who decided the Tango is a whore's dance? I was referring to the things girls do on the dance floor these days to show others that they are ready and willing to put out, such as twerking. You appear to be here just to start an argument of some type. I'd suggest that you cease that activity, and return to more manly activities, such as discussion and wisdom-seeking.