Many men accept that women run their relationships, their marriages. It's often the butt of many jokes in sitcoms, Hollywood movies and real life. Only in America does this seem to exist. Or does it? Is this just how it is? Or is there a better way for men to coexist in relationships?

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So it may seem.  How else to explain the rise of the "ManCave"?

Although, judging from the DIY network show about building mancaves, it seems that the women have managed to infiltrate the guy's fortress of solitude, by participating in decorating the space, and commenting about how nice it will be for when THEY entertain.

May have posted this before, but here:   I'm a member of the Barbershop Group here and have been going to old-time barbers for 30 years now.

The traditional barbershop is a mancave that I socialized into as a boy with my Dad and brothers and when I finally went back for good as an adult, man did I like it.   And I've noticed over years time some women really wanting to get into it-sometimes with a cosmetologist licesnce.  Even had a woman give me some godawfull "Cesar" haircut when I asked for a traditional high and tight.   She said "I know this is not what you wanted but I think it's best for you".

Feminization of men's haircutting has been going on for quite a while now-as if most of them know what they're doing...(albeit a couple I've had do).

I just fucking hate it.  And, might as well add this also boys-I don't sit in the barber chair and talk about my bf (ha, as if I had one).  But stuff that I can talk to a male barber about-some sports, what's going on in town, so on.   I really enjoy the solitude of an all male barbershop-no apologies-and wish that women would learn that feminism doesn't mean that males get no space of their own.  I'm in a position maybe that allows me to somewhat see both sides-women are allowed in men's locker rooms but oh, no the guys can never do the same.

And yeah, maybe I would have fitted in better if I'd opted for the "gay hairdresser" script so I could get into female space if I wanted to prove a point but I'm not good at all at that kind of work.

In this case, I don't think NS is talking about the lack of men-only establishments, but about the creation of man-caves in home to keep masculine influences out of the rest of the house.  The relegation of men to ghettos in their own homes is problematic.  Its my house.  I don't want one lousy room.


A second thought on this.  

I'd agree with a thesis I saw a few years ago concerning women "ruling the roost" in America.  What was theorized was that in the early 1950s, the middle class women in America were sold a full bill of goods about her marriage, her family, her household, and her husband's role in all of that.  The matriarchal nature of determining what people's roles in the nuclear family was reinforced by the magazine industry, and the fact that guys were still invested in the then-existant male role model wherein he was gone most of the day putting nose to grindstone...and not really concerning himself with the mechanics of running a household, other than finances.

A secondary cause is that a lot of "manly" hobbies and interests require time and attention that your average guy simply doesn't have, especially once a wife and children enter the picture.

At the risk of sounding like a Stalinist, was it the 1950s, or the Industrial Revolution?  I imagine household dynamics were very different when the household, rather than the corporation, was the producer unit.  When I read about family farms and family businesses from before urban industrialization, everyone seems to know/do a bit of everything.  The Mrs. might not split rails, but she probably has a worthwhile opinion on when to plant the alfalfa, and I think Mrs. Franklin could run the press and business as well as Benjamin could.

With factories, work was separated from the home, and home life became more about the relationships and less about work.  With higher standards of living, women no longer had to "work" in the same ways they did (and do) in subsistence times.  To keep a kind of equality, we developed the cult of domesticity and a mythology about feminine virtue.

50's.  That was the only time in our history when; the middle class existed en masse, and had enough disposable income for a single paycheck family.

~1945, 20million men came home and said, "Look doll, appreciate you helpin' out with the war effort and rivets and all, but I need a job.  And, you need to raise that kid in your belly.  So how 'bout you scoot on home and take care of that for us."  Then ~1960 the women said, "You know what? I'm tired of drinking a bottle of cookin' sherry every day just to cope with the insane bullshit of sitting on my ass day in day out.  I need a job."

So, you've got about 15 years worth of nostalgia to live up to.  Prior to that, women worked same as men.  Either in the factories, in the fields, or in the shop.  Rich women worked too, they just called it 'their charities'.

You are missing the 70s. As a kid I witnessed it; moms who returned to the work force because of the recession and increased energy prices.

It drove the ones who didn't particularly want to rejoin the workforce to do so.

And the birth of radical feminism.  The 1960's girls just wanted to do something other than iron sheets.  Second/Third wave feminists hated men.  But, when your choice is your PTSD addled father, or hippy boys cum disco kings, I kindof get it.

It was a weird, fucked up time, the 70s. We were all in family therapy, sitting there getting itchy in our polyester.

Produced a lot of messed up kids, my generation.

Polyester does that, yeah.

And it smells bad when you sweat in it.  

Would it that it were that simple then.   Yeah, 70s on some levels were a bit of a drag.  Sure hated disco.  Feminism seemed cool to me when it first appeared on the scene, before it became hijacked by what to my observation is some pretty neurotic thinking on the part of SOME of the women-not all.

I was there for both 60s and 70s.  A wild ride, sometimes fantastic, sometimes tragic-but good things did come out of it, like your right, at this site, to speak your mind so freely- it wasn't always that way.


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