"Here is a poem that I found a little while ago, very fitting for Father's day. It was written by someone that I know quite well.
The Working FatherBy Bjorn Faknam
He wakes afresh each new morn,With body clean and hair short shorn.Then goes to…"
Are guys becomeing weaker
Are guys becomeing weaker? Now before you answer this are you as tough as your grandpa or even your dad. Quick If ww3 was tomarrow would you answer the call. Do you know now how to really throw a punch. Quick do you own a pocket knife. For many modern men these questoins take a few secs or warrent a glazed stare. Up until the 60's there was a high importance placed on makeing men fit for service and life at home. Today theres no longer that push to toughen yah up.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Native Son on -
The thing to remember when dealing with the such statistics (number of GIs who actually fired "a shot in anger" is that the logistical "tail" of the armed forces was in uniform during WWII, not the civilian contractors of the present day. Civilian involvement with WWII military logistics ended at the receiving pier on the other side of the ocean, and sometime, in the case of the US Navy's "fleet train", long before that. One set of numbers I've seen had the US WWII "tail to tip ratio" at something like 8 or 9 support troops to each line infantryman, tanker, or gunner.
Another WWII number crunch goody...before the manpower needs got severe, something on the order of 1/3 of WWII-era draftees couldn't pass the physical.
And yeah, George Bailey was 4-F because of a ruptured eardrum he suffered when he was a child.
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Permalink Reply by Michael D. Denny on -
Society wide? No question, much weaker, both in arm and character.
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Permalink Reply by David F. on
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Yes but that is what is wanted. We have protests and we enact laws against free speech, rather then address the concerns.
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Permalink Reply by SteveSF on -
Okay, I see the point you make but I think you're missing the bigger reality. My grandfathers were a carpenter and a machinist. I'm an architect. I sit at a desk, wear a hard hat at job sites, and carry a big roll of drawings around from time to time. I go to the gym but it wouldn't surprise me if my grandfathers would kick my ass at an arm wrestling competition if we were the same age.
But if world war 3 were to happen today, you ask if I would "answer the call". That's more a question of patriotism than strength. But if it came to a world war 3 scenario, I absolutely would. And I'm pretty sure that for me and most of us neither a pocket knife nor punching would be involved.
I just mean that being "fit for service" didn't involve loading a musket in wwii, and it doesn't mean throwing a punch today. I can imagine that if ww3 were to happen today, the guys that could win that war would program the best drones or hack the enemy's systems.
Ideas of masculinity are changing, as has been discussed here a lot. Just saying, ww3 will not be won by men with good knife skills.
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Permalink Reply by Rick Shelton on -
Even with all the 'tech' (C4I) you would still need someone to go in and hold the ground. You can't fight a one aspect war (aspect being tech, space, air, or ground) it is an all aspect situation and you need to control all of them or you're beat.
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Permalink Reply by ARK on
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My grandfather was too young for WW2 and too old for Vietnam (gotta love the Silent Generation).
The draft was gone by the time my dad was 18.
Neither of them ever served in the military. But they both know how to read and write, which you apparently think is overrated.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Cook on
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i think you guys are over thinking my question. I simply belive were starting to lose are nerve in a socity based way. I think were tradeing mental toughness and courage in order not to make waves. With schools treating kids like their made of glass and a lack of intrest in activtys that dont give gratifcatison immedatly. It seems to me that as a soicity were simply geting meeker and im not sure thats a good thing.
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Permalink Reply by Chuck Knight on -
I've read through much of this thread, and there seem to be a few common ideas, so let me try to give a brief synopsis.
Men are turning into wusses, individually.
How wussy we are, is measured by a number of metrics, including one involving pocket knives.
This individual wussiness is permeating our society and culture, and while weak men can exist, a weak society or culture is a bigger and more troubling problem.
Do I have it just about right?
If so, let me offer this. Individual physical prowess, whether in males or females, is not so important as a general willingness to stand up for yourself and what you believe. And these, historically, have been the quintessential American cultural traits. When the going gets tough, we come together and git'r done!
I just spent last week in a government building. My pocket knife went with me, through security, and back in my pocket, every single day. And, I regularly had it out, in plain view, and in use, unashamedly. 3 guys on my team were shocked I carried one, much less brandished it openly.
It's a tool.
Wusses.
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Permalink Reply by David F. on
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Well yes, in the USA there has been a concerted movement against critical thinking skills, science, multicultural knowledge, resilience, and intelligence. But your original post did not speak to that concern. It listed a bunch of ideas that really have nothing to do with mental toughness and courage.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Knapper on -
Sorry, but I must disagree. Concerted movement against... In education we are trying our darndest to address these very skills and other important ones. The issue is students who don't step up to learn them. I can only teach a student who is ready and WILLING to learn.
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