Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Peyton Quinn on March 13, 2012 at 1:03pm

Are you suggesting your faith can be spoiled by words on a computer screen?

Then I would ask you to look inward and see what the true nature of your faith and beliefs are.

It is never my intetion to offend anyone of any relgious persuassion.

Permalink Reply by Elliott Jason Ridgway on March 13, 2012 at 2:27pm

I suggested no such thing...
paul said "spoil YOU"... not " spoil faith"...
I already know the true nature of my faith & beliefs... that of Jesus Christ...
Every other religion is a derivative of the Babylonian Mysteries (deceit)... or are humanistic philosophies and traditions...

No offense taken... although the exclusive Absolute Truth Claims made by Christ does become a "rock of offense" to those in intellectual bondage to "Religious Relativism" and "political correctness"...
Also, poor spelling can be misleading when one writes "squinter" instead of "sequitor"...

Permalink Reply by Rebekah on March 13, 2012 at 2:38pm

Judaism?

Permalink Reply by Elliott Jason Ridgway on March 13, 2012 at 4:53pm

Modern Judaism is based on the Babylonian Talmud, which replaces the Torah (books of Moses) and rejects the testimony of the OT prophets & Jesus Christ...
The "Oral Tradition of the Pharisees" was brought back to Jerusalem by the Sanhedrin after the Babylonian Captivity, and became a system of bondage that Jesus came to free us from...

After the Religious leaders had Christ crucified, and the zealot rebellion failed, and the Temple was destroyed, the Pharisees and other Christ rejecters willingly returned to Babylon, and codfied the Oral Tradition into what we know as the Talmud today...

Judaism is not monolithic... there are orthodox, reconstructionist, reformed, etc...
The Talmud and the Kabbala are both based on Babylonian witchcraft, which was rejected by the Karaite jews who keep to the Torah, yet were persecuted by the talmudists in a power struggle over the claims to their faith...

Permalink Reply by Peyton Quinn on March 13, 2012 at 5:35pm

Yes there is some historical basis for this too. In contrats there is no histirical evidence for the Jews being held in bondage in Egypt during the time sof the Paharoes.

To me none of htis is but of antecdotal relvance anyway, it si the message of Christiantiy that is important to me more than it genisis or their "gospels' as they are frquently refered too.

Permalink Reply by Elliott Jason Ridgway on March 14, 2012 at 1:45am

What is the source of your historical claims?

Actually, there are bas reliefs in Egypt of the Hibiru people who look different than the Egyptians depicted, and they have the conventional Semitic facial features... beyond hard archeological evidence such as this, there are written historical texts that are accurate that have survived for thousands of years, which some people refer to as the Old Testament...

Permalink Reply by Peyton Quinn on March 14, 2012 at 12:09pm

Yes these things are true, but I said there was no historical evidence of the Hebrews being held in bondage in Egypt.

Religious scirptures can not of course be accepted as historical evidence.

Many researchers have tried to address this of course and while Hebrews and  what would be later called Arabs (both are the same genetic pool) were clearly present in ancient Egypt it is ther numbers and social status that can not be diffinitvely detremeined as yet.

It does appears theHebrews were '2nd class citizens' as not being 'Egyptian', But that difficult to calibrate too as Egytians  'peasants' were 2nd class citizens also compared to the class of Pharoe's priests and soldiers etc.

Permalink Reply by Mike M. on March 14, 2012 at 3:42pm

"Religious scirptures can not of course be accepted as historical evidence."  You keep saying this, and I know you must think that it's a completely obvious thing to say... but no historian of ancient history could possibly accept that position.  The textual record of ancient times is sparse, and where it exists, the text is almost always slanted to promote a particular ideology.  You have to take what's written in religious writings with a grain of salt... but you have to take the writings of Herodotus, Thucydides, or Pliny or Josephus with a grain of salt.  Every shred of text from the ancient world is evidence.  No single text, by itself, is conclusive proof.  You can't necessarily take them at face value.  But, you can't discount them as historical evidence altogether.  You have to take the text, try to understand its perspective and its agenda and analyze it with that in mind.  Then you look to see how it might fit with the other evidence we have.

The only people who could write for large stretches of time in Ancient Israel, Ancient Egypt, etc., were religious leaders.  If we discount every religious text, we preclude any possibility of using textual evidence at all for a few large segments of history...we basically relegate much of the ancient world to the realm of prehistory.  And, if we throw out the religious texts of the Ancient Near East, thus wiping out our entire understanding of its civilizations, do we also have to throw out writings like those of Eusebius?  Pretty soon, we'd toss out most of what we claim to know (apart from the little bit we can gather from archaeological evidence, which without reference to textual evidence, is very little) about most of the world's history prior to a few hundred years ago.

Permalink Reply by Bryan Maloney on April 5, 2012 at 10:45am

How much of the Talmud have you actually read, and how much of your claims are based on some twaddle that someone ELSE has spoon-fed you?

The Talmud does not contain doctrines. Instead, it contains advice on how to implement the Torah.

Indeed, there is every bit as much a "Protestant Talmud" or an "Evangelical Talmud", consisting of innumerable books ABOUT the Bible that purport to tell us how we are supposed to understand Scripture and implement it on a daily basis. I know many an Evangelical who is 100% "talmudic" in their approach--not a word of Scripture means a thing unless filtered through someone like Chuck Swindoll.

Permalink Reply by Elliott Jason Ridgway on April 13, 2012 at 11:26am

The "twaddle" I was "spoon-fed" is from published Jewish scholars, so I think they are a safe & reliable source... It is important to distinguish between Palestinian & Babylonian Talmud... The Talmud is a collection of Oral Traditions of the Pharisees (Mishnah) which became a Secondary Law... The Mishnah replaced the Torah (Books of Moses) as the Primary Text by which the Commentaries (Gemarah) are based on... The Palestinian Talmud (Mishnah) was compiled & completed by Rabbi Jochanan in 230 A.D... The Babylonian Gemarah was begun in 327 A.D. by Rabbi Aschi, developed by Rabbi Maremar around 427 A.D., and completed by Rabbi Abina around 500 A.D... It is the Babylonian version that has been held in the highest esteem by Rabbinical Jews ever since... The Tosephoth (Commentaries on the Mishnah & Gemarah) were later additions by Rabbis Chaia and Uschaia; and supplemented by decisions in the Piske Tosephoth...  In the 11th Century, more Tosephoth were added by Rabbi Ascher and others; most notably by Maimonides, Rabbi Schelomo, Iarchi, & Raschi... this is what we know of as the Jewish Talmud today... Since then, several Rabbis have attempted to make a compendium of the voluminous & disordered work, or make abridged versions to facilitate study... The most successful attempt was completed by Joseph Karo, Rabbi of Palestine, sometime before 1577, known as the Schulchan Arukh... At the present time, it is regarded as the obligatory Law Code of the Jews, and thus is regarded by Rabbinical Jews as more Holy than the Scriptures (Torah)...

Shall I Quote some verses of the Talmud for you? 

Babha Metsia, fol.33a  "Those who devote themselves to reading the Bible exercise a certain virtue, but not very much; those who study the Mishnah exercise virtue for which they will receive a reward; those, however, who take upon themselves to study the Gemarah exercise the highest virtue."

Sanhedrin X, 3, f.88b  "He who transgresses the words of the scribes sins more gravely than the transgressors of the words of the law."

Permalink Reply by Peyton Quinn on March 13, 2012 at 5:32pm

Yes spell chack will do that sometimes.

 

I am also slightly deslexic, that is a rare form of transpotion. Can't read a stove top or simalr spatial diagram, I need to think of a 'mirror image' of it.

 

I was reading newpapers easily and with high comprehension at age 3 and 1/2. When i got into 1st grade the teacher discovered this and got real angry and shouted, "Now you will never learn to spell!" Dam was she evwr right about that too ;)

Permalink Reply by Will on March 13, 2012 at 3:14pm

There's that "offend" thing again.

If we could prevent this thread from being derailed into Mr. Quinn's offense issue, that would be great.

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